Evacuation routes, development, and public safety

Source: https://vimeo.com/1225443380

[00:00:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3s
Okay. Are we good, Emily? Okay, very good.

[00:00:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=8s
Okay, welcome everybody to Wednesday, September 9 regular meeting Spokane Plan

[00:00:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=12s
Commission. Emily, will you please take roll?

[00:00:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=16s
President Bank?

[00:00:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=16s
Here.

[00:00:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=17s
Vice President Patterson?

[00:00:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=18s
Here.

[00:00:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=19s
Commissioner Lenhart?

[00:00:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=20s
Here.

[00:00:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=21s
Commissioner Madsen?

[00:00:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=22s
Here.

[00:00:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=22s
Commissioner Rasmind?

[00:00:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=24s
Here.

[00:00:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=25s
Commissioner Tausch?

[00:00:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=26s
Here.

[00:00:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=27s
Commissioner Williams?

[00:00:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=28s
He's absent.

[00:00:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=29s
Commissioner Yachtz?

[00:00:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=32s
Also absent.

[00:00:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=35s
We do have a quorum, and then Council Member Katinkski is absent.

[00:00:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=40s
And Community Assembly liaison, Linda Carroll?

[00:00:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=42s
Present.

[00:00:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=43s
Good to go.

[00:00:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=43s
Very good. Thank you. Okay, before we get into the agenda, we want to open up the

[00:00:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=47s
floor for any folks that would like to make any comment on items not on today's

[00:00:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=51s
agenda. Do we have anyone in the room?

[00:00:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=55s
Seeing no one, is there anyone online?

[00:00:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=58s
Okay, with that, we'll go ahead and close the public comment and move on to

[00:01:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=61s
approval of the August 26, 2026, meeting minutes. Can I get a motion, please?

[00:01:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=66s
So moved.

[00:01:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=67s
Second.

[00:01:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=67s
Motion and a second. Is there any discussion?

[00:01:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=71s
Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

[00:01:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=73s
Aye.

[00:01:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=73s
Aye.

[00:01:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=74s
Those opposed, nay.

[00:01:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=76s
Okay, minutes are passed. We will skip over the council liaison report and move on

[00:01:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=81s
to community assembly liaison report with Linda.

[00:01:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=83s
Okay. At the September 3rd Community Assembly meeting, I encouraged all of the

[00:01:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=88s
representatives to work with their neighborhood councils on their response to the

[00:01:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=93s
future land use map. I provided basic information about resources and how to enter

[00:01:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=97s
a public comment and reminded the assembly that the public comment period will

[00:01:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=101s
close on October 2nd. Friday. I also

[00:01:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=107s
note that Commission President Bank's characterization of certain public comments

[00:01:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=112s
made at our last meeting and recorded in the minutes is thereby made available to

[00:01:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=116s
the public, who, however, will not be in a position to assess that characterization

[00:02:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=121s
until the comments are made public, which unless I'm misinformed, has not yet

[00:02:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=125s
happened. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

[00:02:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=130s
Is that the conclusion?

[00:02:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=133s
Yep. That's it.

[00:02:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=134s
Okay. And if I could ask just a clarifying question, you're asking by made public,

[00:02:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=138s
in other words, the meeting video being posted online?

[00:02:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=141s
The meeting video and the minutes, yeah, which will be in the packet.

[00:02:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=144s
Okay. Very good.

[00:02:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=147s
Okay, moving on to president report.

[00:02:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=151s
I would just echo

[00:02:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=153s
what community assembly liaison just mentioned, that comment period is open.

[00:02:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=158s
We've received quite a lot of, I think, really good comment.

[00:02:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=162s
We have received at least one neighborhood's official comment, I'm imagining based

[00:02:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=167s
on some of those meetings that came out of community assembly.

[00:02:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=171s
So, again, for the public, we are reading all of those.

[00:02:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=175s
I at least am reading all of those. I suspect my fellow commissioners are as well.

[00:03:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=180s
So please do keep it coming. I think it's really good quality feedback and

[00:03:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=186s
at least some of them have caused me to ask some interesting questions and think of

[00:03:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=191s
some interesting things. So, with that, we will move on to secretary report with

[00:03:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=195s
Spencer.

[00:03:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=197s
Yeah. Can I just ask a question, Linda, if you...

[00:03:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=201s
Are you talking about the video from the last workshop?

[00:03:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=205s
I'm talking about video from, I believe it was

[00:03:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=210s
in the early part of the meeting of the Plan Commission.

[00:03:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=215s
But in any case, they're memorialized in the minutes.

[00:03:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=218s
Yeah, but you're talking about the

[00:03:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=221s
most recent workshop. I just checked. That is online.

[00:03:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=225s
So if you look at the Plan Commission website, there's a link that says view

[00:03:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=229s
meeting videos. That is-

[00:03:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=231s
Comments that have been characterized by the commission president are not available

[00:03:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=235s
to the public.

[00:03:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=236s
Oh, so you're not talking about comments from a member of this body, you're talking

[00:03:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=239s
about comments from the public being made publicly available?

[00:04:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=243s
No. Well, what I'm saying is the president of the Plan Commission characterized

[00:04:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=248s
certain public comments in the meeting, and that's memorialized in written form in

[00:04:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=252s
the minutes. But the public who has access to the meeting recording and will

[00:04:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=258s
eventually have access to the minutes, as far as I know, unless I'm mistaken, and

[00:04:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=262s
please correct me if I am mistaken, that public cannot assess the statements

[00:04:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=268s
made by reading the original documents because the original documents are not yet

[00:04:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=272s
available to the public. Is that a correct statement?

[00:04:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=274s
So I think I understand now. We generally put all the comments in the hearing

[00:04:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=278s
packet, which we'll prepare in advance of the actual hearing.

[00:04:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=281s
Okay. But currently, the public may view that video and may, within two weeks, read

[00:04:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=285s
those minutes and have that characterization available but will not have the

[00:04:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=289s
original documents that are being characterized available for, whatever, another

[00:04:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=294s
month or so.

[00:04:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=294s
Yeah, those will be included in the hearing packet.

[00:04:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=296s
Okay.

[00:04:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=298s
Okay, thanks. I just wanted to make sure I understood.

[00:05:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=301s
I wanted to introduce Ryan Roller.

[00:05:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=304s
He is a new legal intern for us, so he's going to sit in on our meetings.

[00:05:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=308s
You want to just tell us a little bit about yourself?

[00:05:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=310s
Yeah, I'm Ryan Roller. I'm a 3L at Gonzaga, which is like the last year of law

[00:05:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=314s
school. But I'm working for the city attorney's office right now, the city, and I'm

[00:05:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=318s
really looking forward to working with you guys more and hopefully making the

[00:05:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=321s
community a better place. So yeah.

[00:05:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=322s
Thank you. Welcome.

[00:05:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=323s
Thank you.

[00:05:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=325s
Lastly, some of you, if you've been watching city council agendas, like everyone

[00:05:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=331s
does here, I'm sure,

[00:05:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=334s
Lauren Pangborn has been nominated as a Plan Commission member.

[00:05:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=339s
I expect council will take action on that tonight, so I don't see her in the room,

[00:05:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=343s
but-

[00:05:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=344s
She was at our last meeting.

[00:05:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=345s
Okay.

[00:05:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=346s
She did come to the last meeting and sat in the audience.

[00:05:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=348s
It's on the agenda for tonight, so I expect action to be taken.

[00:05:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=352s
So she'll be sitting on Plan Commission for our next meeting,

[00:05:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=357s
and I think that covers everything I have.

[00:05:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=359s
Very good.

[00:06:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=360s
Okay. Moving on to Transportation Commission liaison.

[00:06:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=365s
Oh, sorry. We didn't have one this month.

[00:06:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=367s
Very good. Okay. We are hustling through the pre-meeting stuff here. Okay.

[00:06:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=372s
With that, we will move on to approval of current agenda.

[00:06:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=375s
Can I have a motion, please?

[00:06:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=376s
Motion.

[00:06:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=377s
Second.

[00:06:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=377s
Motion and a second. Is there any discussion?

[00:06:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=381s
All those in favor say aye.

[00:06:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=383s
Aye.

[00:06:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=383s
Those opposed, nay. Okay, we have a current agenda, and we'll move on then directly

[00:06:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=387s
to a Build Spokane update with Tim.

[00:06:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=394s
We're

[00:07:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=434s
getting there.

[00:07:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=462s
Okay, Tim, we're at your service.

[00:07:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=463s
It's good.

[00:07:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=463s
It has worked in the past.

[00:07:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=464s
Okay. Let's see here.

[00:07:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=464s
I

[00:07:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=464s
like

[00:08:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=488s
the way that all the T's intersect. It's cute.

[00:08:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=493s
Yeah, I see them.

[00:08:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=496s
So good afternoon. Here to talk a little bit about the Build Spokane code

[00:08:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=501s
modernization. Don't have a lot to update on today.

[00:08:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=508s
Just going to change how to think of this now.

[00:08:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=516s
Okay. So here, again, project calendar. We're in the drafting phase.

[00:08:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=523s
The drafting's probably going to take a little bit longer.

[00:08:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=526s
As you know, I think we've done module one partially.

[00:08:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=530s
We've kind of hit a place where we need to move forward in the project in order to

[00:08:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=535s
come back to the process and procedure section and really hone in on that.

[00:09:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=541s
And so the consultant has moved on to module two.

[00:09:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=544s
Right now, internally, we have a draft of the zoning districts

[00:09:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=550s
And then probably within the next week or so, I anticipate getting the second part

[00:09:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=555s
of module two, which is actually the use table itself and the list of uses with a

[00:09:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=561s
consolidated use table. Obviously, with the fires last month,

[00:09:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=568s
our priorities had to shift, and so we got a little bit away from this project.

[00:09:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=575s
And so we're probably targeting at least,

[00:09:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=580s
probably not adopting before February of next year.

[00:09:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=584s
But certainly, we're still targeting quarter one.

[00:09:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=590s
Again, module one was administration and procedures.

[00:09:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=594s
The module two was zone districts and uses, and then we'll shift on to development

[00:09:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=599s
and design standards. But what I wanted to talk about today was development

[00:10:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=605s
review and the development review process in particular because I think it's

[00:10:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=609s
important that we

[00:10:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=615s
have a unique opportunity here. So development review is the city's system for

[00:10:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=618s
moving a project from vision to reality.

[00:10:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=621s
So somebody comes in with a concept to, they have a CBO, and they're able to occupy

[00:10:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=627s
the building. And I've bolded two words here, system and outcome, because that's

[00:10:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=632s
really what we're talking about here, system and outcome.

[00:10:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=635s
The end goal here is not necessarily a building permit. That's a means to an end.

[00:10:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=639s
We're really focused on what is the outcome that we're trying to achieve more

[00:10:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=642s
holistically.

[00:10:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=645s
But the process brings together the regulations, the people, information,

[00:10:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=649s
decisions, and the processes involved in those land use technical review,

[00:10:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=654s
permitting construction inspections.

[00:11:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=660s
Okay. So I mentioned we have a unique opportunity here.

[00:11:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=662s
We're in the midst of doing our comprehensive plan update.

[00:11:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=665s
We're obviously doing the Build Spokane code modernization.

[00:11:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=668s
We're also updating our permitting software. We're going from Acella to Llama.

[00:11:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=672s
We've also initiated a conversation with the Washington State Auditor's Office.

[00:11:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=678s
They have

[00:11:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=680s
a division that does lean processing review and so we've engaged with those

[00:11:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=685s
folks, and it looks like they're going to come here and do some process mapping for

[00:11:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=689s
us. So this really gives us an opportunity to be more deliberate in how the system

[00:11:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=693s
works, how it supports staff, and how it serves our customers, because it should do

[00:11:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=697s
both.

[00:11:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=698s
Okay.

[00:11:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=701s
So to what, I guess, what is the chronology of those inputs there?

[00:11:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=706s
Because it seems like

[00:11:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=708s
the last two should probably be in place before Build is

[00:11:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=714s
adopted, or ideally Build should react to those last two,

[00:11:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=719s
be able to at least.

[00:12:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=720s
Yes, I think you're probably right in that regard.

[00:12:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=724s
So obviously comprehensive plan has got to come first and then we can follow with

[00:12:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=727s
the code. I think the hope and the intent here is that the lean process will help

[00:12:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=733s
us to inform,

[00:12:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=736s
not necessarily the code, but how we administer the code.

[00:12:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=741s
So, the processes within the code, so if we just pick conditional use permit, for

[00:12:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=746s
example,

[00:12:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=748s
is defined in the code. These are the steps that you would take, and then the

[00:12:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=753s
overall system and process we would actually build.

[00:12:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=758s
And then the Llama, the permit system should be implemented, hopefully, I think by

[00:12:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=764s
the end of the year, I think is where we're at on that.

[00:12:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=768s
So that's coming.

[00:12:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=772s
So development review is complex, but structure matters.

[00:12:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=776s
So having a structured system truly matters.

[00:13:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=781s
It talks about purpose, it explains the roles, it sets expectation.

[00:13:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=786s
There's a sequence, there's decision points, and then where those handoffs occur.

[00:13:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=791s
So it creates that common framework that allows different projects to move through

[00:13:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=795s
the system in a consistent and understandable way.

[00:13:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=797s
And I'm going to tie this all together at the end because I think this really comes

[00:13:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=800s
back to some of the overarching themes that we've heard through the Build Spokane

[00:13:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=804s
process from many of our stakeholders.

[00:13:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=809s
Systems produce outcomes. So I'm going to use my washing machine analogy here.

[00:13:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=813s
I've been testing this out for the last week and if you're wondering, yes, I do my

[00:13:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=817s
own laundry too, but so when we think about a washing machine,

[00:13:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=823s
the input is dirty clothes and the expected output is clean clothes, and that's

[00:13:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=830s
what we expect out of that system. Within that system, within the washing machine,

[00:13:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=834s
there are different processes. You've got fill, you've got wash, drain, rinse,

[00:13:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=839s
all sequenced accordingly, right?

[00:14:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=842s
And then in some cases, maybe you add a little fabric softener in there, and that

[00:14:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=845s
happens at the rinse cycle. So there's some things that may happen concurrently

[00:14:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=849s
too. And our development review process should really be no different.

[00:14:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=854s
There is a sequence of events that must occur, but some of those events can occur

[00:14:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=859s
simultaneously.

[00:14:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=862s
And again, the outcome of the project is vision to reality.

[00:14:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=865s
We want clean clothes at the end of the day.

[00:14:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=869s
And if any of those processes within the washing machine fail, it impacts whether

[00:14:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=874s
we have clean clothes or not.

[00:14:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=877s
So it's important that all of those processes work together.

[00:14:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=884s
Again, every process has a purpose. Why does it exist?

[00:14:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=887s
What are we trying to accomplish? What information is needed?

[00:14:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=890s
Who needs to be involved? What should come out of it? What happens next?

[00:14:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=894s
This is really our opportunity to ask ourselves, why are we doing what we're doing?

[00:14:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=898s
Is there a different way? Is there another way? Is there a better way?

[00:15:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=903s
What can we do, again, to achieve that desired outcome?

[00:15:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=910s
Can I-

[00:15:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=911s
Sure.

[00:15:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=911s
Can I just call attention to that piece at the very bottom in bold there?

[00:15:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=915s
Yeah.

[00:15:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=916s
I'm assuming, and I maybe just want to point this out in case it's not, that

[00:15:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=922s
there's some mechanism that's being built in, some sort of feedback loop mechanism

[00:15:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=926s
that's being built into this opportunity to memorialize that because I think

[00:15:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=931s
that's where we potentially have run into trouble in the past is it's just been

[00:15:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=937s
the way that we do it, and we sort of add a little patch on because of this thing

[00:15:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=942s
changed, then another patch, and then we have this agglomeration of patches with a

[00:15:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=947s
process from 20 years ago somewhere in the middle.

[00:15:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=950s
And I don't see at least a mandate somewhere to be

[00:15:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=956s
evaluating those things and asking those questions that you're rightly pointing out

[00:16:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=962s
there.

[00:16:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=963s
I think what you're describing is part of that process of change management, and I

[00:16:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=968s
believe that will be an outcome of the lean process because really what we're

[00:16:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=974s
talking about is continual process improvement here, and that should be an outcome

[00:16:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=978s
of the lean process.

[00:16:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=980s
I just want to add to that, because I think that is a concern.

[00:16:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=984s
But in my observation, as I've been here and from

[00:16:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=990s
before I was here as well, I think one of the challenges is that we pay a lot of

[00:16:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=995s
attention to the standards within a code, what you can build, where you can build

[00:16:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=999s
it. We have not historically paid a lot of attention to the process.

[00:16:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1004s
And so it's, in a way, it's easier for us to reform height limits or

[00:16:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1010s
building coverage or some of those things because they're visible and it's easy to

[00:16:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1014s
get the public engaged and excited about it.

[00:16:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1017s
But when we talk about our development review process, it's largely internal and

[00:17:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1021s
the stakeholders tend to be professionals who can figure out how to work within the

[00:17:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1027s
system well enough, even though it isn't optimally designed.

[00:17:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1032s
And so it just isn't some of those things that's screaming out for constant

[00:17:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1036s
attention.

[00:17:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1037s
And that's a great segue here because our process should really be designed for our

[00:17:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1043s
customers. We talk a lot about public engagement and meeting people where they are.

[00:17:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1049s
And I think our process has to do that same thing.

[00:17:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1052s
We can't expect all of these varied stakeholders to come to us.

[00:17:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1056s
They have different levels of experience, resources, familiarity with

[00:17:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1061s
city processes. You have a homeowner versus contractor, developer.

[00:17:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1068s
We have to figure out how we establish a process that

[00:17:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1074s
is designed for all of those folks.

[00:17:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1076s
And so

[00:17:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1078s
again, the system should be designed to support that range of customers while also

[00:18:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1082s
working effectively for us. So

[00:18:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1085s
my view of how we do things now is we've established a process, and now we expect

[00:18:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1091s
people to follow our process. And that doesn't always work well.

[00:18:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1096s
So this is our opportunity to maybe take a step back a little bit and say, "Hey,

[00:18:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1100s
how can we maybe better serve the customer, be more responsive to the customer,

[00:18:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1104s
while still serving our own needs?"

[00:18:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1108s
So we have to understand who our customers are and what their needs are.

[00:18:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1114s
So we have to make clear what's required, why is it required, what is the customer

[00:18:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1118s
expected to do, what will the city do, and then again, that handoff of what happens

[00:18:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1122s
next.

[00:18:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1124s
Something that I think we're going to hear more of is this phrase of, "Go slow to

[00:18:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1128s
go fast." This was something that came up in our conversations with the state and

[00:18:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1133s
the lean folks.

[00:18:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1136s
It's not all about speed. Certainly we want to process permits faster.

[00:19:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1142s
There's no question that that's what we want to achieve.

[00:19:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1145s
But there are also some other benefits to having a more defined and established

[00:19:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1150s
process.

[00:19:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1153s
So, the idea here is that we spend more time upfront identifying and addressing

[00:19:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1158s
issues so that on the backside, things go much more smoothly, and we can get that

[00:19:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1163s
permit out the door quickly. When somebody comes in and submits a building permit,

[00:19:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1167s
that project, in my view, is real. They're ready to go. They want their permit.

[00:19:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1172s
That's not the time to start debating whether or not they meet zoning requirements

[00:19:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1176s
or not. We should have dealt with that ahead of time.

[00:19:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1180s
And so we want to focus on the building permit being the technical review of the

[00:19:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1184s
standards, which could include zoning standards.

[00:19:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1186s
Obviously, we want to make sure they meet setbacks, et cetera.

[00:19:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1189s
But it's more of a validation stage than a truly in-depth

[00:19:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1194s
review.

[00:19:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1198s
So again, better structure upfront will also make projects easier for staff to

[00:20:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1201s
manage throughout the review. We also want to make the system visible.

[00:20:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1205s
A well-defined development review system should be documented and understood.

[00:20:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1210s
It should show processes, how they connect, who's involved, where decisions occur.

[00:20:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1215s
To my knowledge, we don't even have a flowchart of our development review process.

[00:20:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1221s
So we've contacted that Washington State Auditor's Office, Center for Government

[00:20:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1226s
Innovation, and they are the folks that specialize in lean.

[00:20:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1230s
They've done projects like this all across the state.

[00:20:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1233s
We've had a couple conversations with them so far.

[00:20:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1235s
They're really excited to come and to help.

[00:20:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1240s
So we've set up an initial workshop meeting, probably the end of October is

[00:20:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1246s
what we're looking at. And then hopefully what will follow is the process mapping

[00:20:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1251s
to occur, I would guess, December, January timeframe, so that we can

[00:20:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1257s
document what the process looks like today and really start to define what we want

[00:21:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1262s
it to look like in the future.

[00:21:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1265s
Again, this is really an opportunity for us.

[00:21:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1272s
So tying this all back together, what is it that we're trying to achieve?

[00:21:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1276s
Well, we want to develop a review system that's clear, predictable, consistent,

[00:21:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1279s
responsive, efficient, coordinated, adaptable.

[00:21:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1282s
Similar to what we've talked about with Build Spokane and the code modernization.

[00:21:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1286s
We want a code that's clear, consistent, predictable, enforceable,

[00:21:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1292s
a code that we can administer.

[00:21:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1296s
So we're really just trying to tie it all back together.

[00:21:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1299s
The process is an extremely important part of the overall

[00:21:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1305s
development review system, the ecosystem.

[00:21:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1309s
You've heard me talk about the ecosystem, really creating that

[00:21:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1313s
place where people want to come here and want to develop.

[00:21:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1317s
And we've created an environment that encourages that.

[00:22:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1320s
We're fair, we're reasonable, we're equitable.

[00:22:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1324s
Our codes are clear and consistent, and people know what to expect.

[00:22:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1329s
I would venture to guess that most developers are going to want to take the path of

[00:22:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1332s
least resistance, and we should provide that to them.

[00:22:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1336s
That does not mean that we're going to waver on standards.

[00:22:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1339s
We still need to establish a minimum bar.

[00:22:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1341s
And I would also suggest that most developers, whether the bar is way up here or

[00:22:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1346s
down here, they just want to know where it is, and then let them determine whether

[00:22:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1351s
they want to achieve it or not, or perhaps go elsewhere.

[00:22:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1356s
I would say, as long as people know where it is, they'll likely do it.

[00:22:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1361s
So again, the goal is a better outcome, not simply a

[00:22:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1367s
faster process.

[00:22:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1370s
So really, where do we go from here?

[00:22:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1374s
My hope in presenting this to you is just to maybe have a little brief discussion,

[00:22:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1379s
solicit some feedback. Are we on the right track?

[00:23:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1382s
Are we approaching this through the right lens?

[00:23:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1386s
What are we missing? Are there other opportunities?

[00:23:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1388s
So with that, I'll open it up to you all.

[00:23:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1392s
Okay, thank you, Tim. Questions? Go.

[00:23:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1394s
I think it's great. I think everything so far, a lot of what you touched on are

[00:23:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1397s
things I hear from developers and builders in what I do.

[00:23:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1401s
So, especially knowing where it's at.

[00:23:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1404s
They want to know where the baseline is and everything. So I think that's awesome.

[00:23:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1408s
And the slowest, smoothest, fastest is pretty much it's on point.

[00:23:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1413s
That's where it needs to be.

[00:23:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1415s
Yeah.

[00:23:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1416s
Great.

[00:23:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1418s
Oh, did I hear you say you used a consultant during your process of some sort?

[00:23:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1423s
So, well, we have two consultants.

[00:23:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1424s
We have a consultant that's helping us with the code update, code modernization,

[00:23:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1428s
that's Clarion Associates and Kimley-Horn.

[00:23:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1431s
And then, we're working with the state auditor's office, who provides consulting

[00:23:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1436s
services to local governments for free. Of course, nothing's free.

[00:24:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1440s
That's why they say it's a free lunch.

[00:24:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1442s
So-

[00:24:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1443s
An additional cost

[00:24:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1443s
... so they're going to be helping us with that process mapping.

[00:24:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1446s
And who gives them the direction that they should look at or what your overall

[00:24:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1451s
goals are for doing? I mean, it's a review-

[00:24:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1453s
Our staff is. So yeah, they have a process where we have

[00:24:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1458s
to create a charter document that we'll give them, which establishes what

[00:24:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1464s
our goals are and what we hope to achieve.

[00:24:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1468s
The initial conversations have been very positive, very good. They're very excited.

[00:24:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1473s
The person that's been assigned to us actually lives in Moscow, so she comes to

[00:24:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1479s
Spokane quite frequently and is familiar with our community.

[00:24:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1482s
So she was really excited to have an opportunity to work here.

[00:24:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1486s
Thanks.

[00:24:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1489s
Two comments. One was just,

[00:24:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1492s
I think this is probably clear to everybody, but just perceptions are

[00:24:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1499s
more important than reality sometimes especially when it comes to how people choose

[00:25:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1503s
to develop land. And so,

[00:25:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1507s
I think that in a lot of ways, I think over the past 10 years,

[00:25:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1511s
that it is much easier to...

[00:25:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1516s
I think the city's been very predictable.

[00:25:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1518s
And the perceptions lag after that, right?

[00:25:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1524s
I can talk about more about that in other jurisdictions anyway.

[00:25:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1529s
But the other thing that I wanted to ask is,

[00:25:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1534s
what methods are there, I guess, to

[00:25:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1540s
improve processes or look at processes that involve

[00:25:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1547s
other departments, and maybe potentially where there are conflicts between

[00:25:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1553s
different departments and how they function?

[00:25:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1555s
I guess I just think about fire, water, and engineering services and what ability,

[00:26:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1560s
I guess, do we have here to be able to

[00:26:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1564s
negotiate those processes with those departments?

[00:26:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1568s
I think the best answer that I can give is we are currently coordinating with some

[00:26:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1574s
of those outside departments and I think trying to understand what their needs

[00:26:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1579s
are. And

[00:26:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1582s
I think by establishing a process, we're not only setting an expectation for a

[00:26:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1587s
developer, but for ourselves internally as well.

[00:26:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1591s
So in my view, the process could be such that

[00:26:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1596s
somebody comes in with an idea, they go through a pre-development meeting, which

[00:26:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1601s
really talks about the high level, "Hey, the use is permitted.

[00:26:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1604s
This is the process that you'll have to go through in order to get approval, and

[00:26:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1608s
then you can move on to building permit," and really walk them through that.

[00:26:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1612s
They come in with conditional use permit, site development permit.

[00:26:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1616s
That's our opportunity to take a very big picture, holistic view of the

[00:27:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1621s
project. It's an opportunity for us to share that with some of those outside

[00:27:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1626s
departments and outside agencies, solicit their feedback, and then we have an

[00:27:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1630s
opportunity to condition that approval.

[00:27:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1633s
"Hey, when you submit for a building permit, make sure that you've addressed..."

[00:27:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1638s
These building code issues or these fire code issues, or if the state comes back,

[00:27:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1643s
if Wash Dot comes back and says, "We need some traffic improvements," there's an

[00:27:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1647s
opportunity to condition that at that point in time. Now it's a known, right?

[00:27:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1652s
That's not being dropped on a developer after they submit a building permit.

[00:27:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1655s
It becomes a known now. And if we can do that across the board to fire and

[00:27:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1660s
utilities as well, I think people will start to feel more comfortable that they're

[00:27:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1665s
being heard and that the applicants at the end of the day are complying with

[00:27:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1671s
the requirements and the requests because there's some factual basis, there's a

[00:27:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1675s
consistent process that was followed, and there are no surprises at the end of the

[00:28:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1680s
day. Right? So now they know that the next step in their process, which is the

[00:28:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1685s
design phase and ultimately submitting for a building permit, they now should have

[00:28:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1689s
a much, much better, clearer idea of what they have to do in order to get their

[00:28:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1694s
permit because that for them, they want that permit so that we can

[00:28:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1700s
both achieve that ultimate outcome, which is the construction of that project.

[00:28:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1705s
So I think that's what we're shooting for.

[00:28:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1708s
I think this process could help in that by, again, really establishing those

[00:28:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1713s
expectations for not just developers but for ourselves.

[00:28:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1719s
Accountability is, I think what really comes to mind here, is really trying to hold

[00:28:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1724s
ourselves accountable and each other accountable.

[00:28:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1729s
The thoughts...

[00:28:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1732s
Well, I just want to jump in, first of all saying, bravo.

[00:28:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1736s
I do think those are the right outcomes and the right principles.

[00:29:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1740s
I think the process mapping thing is going to be a really, really interesting

[00:29:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1744s
exercise and there's going to have to be a lot of navel-gazing there and saying,

[00:29:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1749s
"Is this the right process or not?" And if it's not the right process, what is the

[00:29:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1755s
right process and how can we improve things?

[00:29:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1758s
I would still love to see some sort of mandated feedback loop or something like

[00:29:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1764s
that in there that

[00:29:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1768s
puts in place something that says, thou shalt make sure you're constantly

[00:29:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1773s
monitoring effectiveness of these programs by some mechanism or something along

[00:29:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1778s
those lines, because I think it's too easy, given all of the complexity and

[00:29:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1782s
everything that you just discussed, it's too easy to be like, "There, we fixed it.

[00:29:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1786s
Done. Moving on."

[00:29:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1789s
And I think we lose this opportunity or the magnitude of the

[00:29:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1794s
opportunity bleeds away over time if we do that.

[00:30:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1800s
So I'd like to point that out, one, and two, call special attention to clarity.

[00:30:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1805s
I'm dealing with one issue in Title 17 right now that is

[00:30:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1811s
just not written. It's just not written in the language.

[00:30:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1814s
It's just an interpretation and it's fundamentally different than what's written in

[00:30:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1819s
the language, and my argument has been how is the average person who's reading

[00:30:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1825s
this supposed to understand that that's the interpretation when the language says

[00:30:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1828s
it's over here? And I think finding those things, I think part of that will come

[00:30:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1833s
out of the process conversation, but also just as part of the larger Title 17,

[00:30:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1839s
trying to find those phantom code and phantom process moments in

[00:30:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1844s
there that are making people crazy in their...

[00:30:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1848s
I know personally of at least four projects that that one specific issue is

[00:30:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1852s
killing.

[00:30:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1854s
And that's not nothing that we want to see.

[00:30:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1858s
I'd love to know what that is.

[00:30:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1859s
Yeah, me too. More than happy to talk about it.

[00:31:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1862s
Pavement makers.

[00:31:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1862s
Let's just say pavement makers.

[00:31:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1864s
Oh. Yeah. And then, just to be clear, my expectation of this system itself,

[00:31:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1870s
it doesn't live in the code, it's an administrative process that we follow.

[00:31:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1876s
It should be clear and consistent, it should be visual.

[00:31:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1878s
We should be able to provide that to folks, but that's not something that I think

[00:31:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1881s
really lives in the code.

[00:31:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1883s
Yeah.

[00:31:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1883s
The processes that make up the system live in the code.

[00:31:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1889s
Is the vision that that,

[00:31:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1892s
whatever memorializes that process or processes, whatever, is that

[00:31:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1898s
something that will be publicly available also?

[00:31:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1902s
Because I think that that's something that would really back to the point about

[00:31:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1906s
perception, and I think here's what you can expect.

[00:31:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1910s
This is our own roadmap that we're holding ourselves to, so if it doesn't go that

[00:31:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1915s
way, let us know. Yeah.

[00:31:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1917s
Yes, and I think that really speaks to expectations.

[00:32:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1920s
So as I said, the process today isn't really on paper.

[00:32:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1924s
It's institutional knowledge and this is how we do it.

[00:32:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1929s
But, to my knowledge, there's no flowchart, or at least there's no

[00:32:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1936s
robust flowchart that shows you what the process is.

[00:32:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1941s
I think maybe folks think it's intuitive. I don't know.

[00:32:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1945s
When you're dealing with a wide range of customers, you need to be able to provide

[00:32:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1949s
something because that really sets and establishes the expectation.

[00:32:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1953s
I think anything we can do to keep that process consistent, regardless

[00:32:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1959s
of what the application type is, up to a point, and then you have

[00:32:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1965s
decision points where things may go a different direction.

[00:32:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1968s
But anything we can do to standardize that will really help establish that

[00:32:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1973s
expectation of what people can expect.

[00:32:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1976s
The state has given us the shop clock, which

[00:33:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1981s
in 120, 160 days, we should have no

[00:33:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1986s
problem achieving that, and I would like to do so good that we

[00:33:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1992s
don't even get remotely close to any of those time frames because I think we can.

[00:33:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=1997s
If we do it systematically, I think we can get to that point.

[00:33:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2001s
And I really want to commend your, the consultant's approach with all of this.

[00:33:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2005s
I think from what I've seen at least, this has been a really systematic approach to

[00:33:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2010s
it, and so I want to commend you all for doing this.

[00:33:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2013s
This is big and complicated and I think the way that you all have chosen to eat the

[00:33:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2019s
proverbial elephant here is really logical and ordered and methodical, and

[00:33:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2025s
that's what it's going to take to do this well and capture the opportunity that you

[00:33:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2029s
started with.

[00:33:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2031s
I appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. Anything else?

[00:33:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2035s
All right. Just real quick, I'll do the last

[00:33:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2039s
few slides. I'll be back soon. I don't want to be too committal, but

[00:34:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2045s
I'll be back soon. Got a QR code. Always happy to hear feedback

[00:34:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2051s
from folks and anything that's really been eating at you or anything from the

[00:34:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2056s
zoning standpoint that you want to talk about or make us aware of, I'm happy to

[00:34:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2061s
take those comments.

[00:34:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2063s
Great. Well, thanks so much, Tim. Appreciate it.

[00:34:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2065s
Thank you.

[00:34:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2067s
Okay, so we'll let Tim clear out and we'll move on to a discussion of the flume

[00:34:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2072s
with at least Brandon. I don't see Tyrrell anywhere.

[00:34:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2075s
Tyrrell's out.

[00:34:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2077s
Tyrrell's out. Okay, so we go to Kevin.

[00:34:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2079s
So you get me.

[00:34:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2080s
Beauty. We haven't had you in a while, Kevin.

[00:34:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2083s
What's that?

[00:34:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2083s
We haven't had you in a while.

[00:34:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2087s
This way I get to make more snotty jokes about how I do this.

[00:34:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2093s
That column is the worst.

[00:34:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2096s
I'm just steering the map today since it's a Brandon show.

[00:34:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2099s
Okay.

[00:35:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2100s
Yep. So Brandon Whitmarsh, preferred alternative.

[00:35:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2104s
I'm going to do a presentation quickly covering some of the common themes we've

[00:35:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2108s
heard from comments so far. Some of these are coming from the interactive map, some

[00:35:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2114s
of these are coming from the packet that you guys received directly, really

[00:35:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2118s
focusing on some of the ones that we've heard multiple comments on.

[00:35:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2121s
And then there'll be time for open discussion on things that you guys would like to

[00:35:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2125s
talk about as well. Kevin's here with the interactive map.

[00:35:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2128s
We can bounce back and forth with the presentation slides and that as well.

[00:35:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2133s
Just want to highlight,

[00:35:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2137s
always the question of whether it's hard or not.

[00:35:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2140s
Again, the preferred alternative is the basis for a lot of this decision-making,

[00:35:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2146s
and again, focusing today's presentation on comments and things related to

[00:35:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2151s
areas of change within that preferred alternative.

[00:35:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2154s
There are comments on the interactive map online, there are comments that we've

[00:35:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2157s
received that are outside of those areas.

[00:36:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2160s
Today's presentation is largely focused on these areas.

[00:36:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2163s
Can you just refresh our memory? So I know the preferred alternative was adopted in

[00:36:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2169s
May, but when were those drafts originally discussed?

[00:36:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2174s
When did that conversation start?

[00:36:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2176s
The draft of-

[00:36:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2178s
The preferred alternative

[00:36:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2179s
... mapping from this stage to the-

[00:36:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2183s
When did we first see preferred alternative maps?

[00:36:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2186s
We had the two options there originally.

[00:36:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2189s
Oh.

[00:36:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2189s
That's a good question

[00:36:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2191s
I feel like it was-

[00:36:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2192s
Yeah.

[00:36:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2193s
To clarify, May is council.

[00:36:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2195s
Correct. That's what I'm saying. So like, when did we start talking?

[00:36:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2198s
A month before that. Because like we-

[00:36:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2199s
We've been having conversations since January.

[00:36:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2201s
Okay.

[00:36:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2201s
So about a year.

[00:36:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2202s
Yeah.

[00:36:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2203s
That feels like a really important data point.

[00:36:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2205s
Yeah.

[00:36:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2205s
And the Preferred Alternative itself, is the end product of a lot of discussions.

[00:36:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2210s
Because we had one through three, and then this is four.

[00:36:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2213s
Right. Multiple workshops, and multiple public events, and then winnowing it down

[00:36:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2218s
with Burk Consulting, a consultant on this project, to get to that final version

[00:37:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2223s
that you see was, yeah, at least a year's work.

[00:37:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2226s
Okay. Thank you. I think that's a really important data point, because I'm hearing

[00:37:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2229s
a lot about, "Oh, the flume is just being dropped at the last minute," and those

[00:37:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2235s
sorts of things. And it's, as I understand it at least, is a parcel by parcel

[00:37:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2240s
translation of the Preferred Alternative, which, as we just discussed, has been

[00:37:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2244s
being discussed for over a year.

[00:37:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2246s
Yeah. You might recall when we announced the first complete draft flume, we brought

[00:37:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2252s
that exhibit, and I can bring that poster back. Oh, thanks.

[00:37:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2255s
I added it to the-

[00:37:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2255s
You added it.

[00:37:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2256s
It's on the slide now.

[00:37:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2258s
You know. You can kind of see, the colors you see on that right-hand map...

[00:37:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2262s
I'm stealing your slide, I'm sorry.

[00:37:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2264s
The colors you see on that right-hand map, those are where the flume kind of

[00:37:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2268s
changed from that baseline conversion.

[00:37:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2270s
The old system converted to the new system, and then to implement the alternative,

[00:37:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2276s
there were some areas that were changed.

[00:37:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2278s
The colored areas on the right, you see, are the ones that changed.

[00:38:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2281s
And then if you look at that against what the Preferred Alternative is, it's very

[00:38:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2285s
close. There are some differences.

[00:38:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2289s
The Preferred Alternative, it's hard sometimes for folks to look at that because it

[00:38:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2292s
was not even the goal, in the sense of the amount of change shown.

[00:38:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2297s
It was the maximum possible areas that we might look at for that change.

[00:38:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2302s
But ultimately, the change that you see now, the colors that you see now, are

[00:38:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2307s
targeted towards that projected population, that projected housing need, and then

[00:38:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2312s
of course, the other needs that were identified through the visioning processes.

[00:38:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2317s
I'll stop doing your presentation for you.

[00:38:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2320s
Thank you for that.

[00:38:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2321s
Any other questions on this before we hop into specifics?

[00:38:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2325s
Well, I guess there's one more slide before we get into specifics.

[00:38:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2329s
We've talked a number of times about open space.

[00:38:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2332s
Last Planning Commission workshop, I mentioned that when we did the conversion of,

[00:38:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2338s
or when we designated all city parks as open space, as well as the river, and some

[00:39:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2343s
additional strategic locations of open space, it increased the city's open space by

[00:39:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2348s
16%. We're continuing to look at city-owned property at the moment.

[00:39:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2354s
What are either parks properties that isn't designated a park, those kinds of

[00:39:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2359s
things, to consider where there are additional opportunities.

[00:39:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2363s
An example is up on the South Hill, the wastewater facility.

[00:39:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2368s
It has walking paths. It operates as open space.

[00:39:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2372s
It is a long-term non-developable site.

[00:39:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2376s
Potentially, that's an opportunity to be considered open space.

[00:39:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2379s
So, we will be working with those departments and ensuring that we're not proposing

[00:39:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2384s
open space for land that isn't necessarily long-term city property.

[00:39:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2389s
And then we'll bring forward kind of a full suite of...

[00:39:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2394s
Sorry, you had a question first.

[00:39:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2395s
More just a, is there a way, this is one of those like we write all the paragraphs,

[00:40:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2401s
do people read the paragraphs? Of making sure that it's clear that open space

[00:40:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2407s
is city-owned property, that it is for public lands,

[00:40:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2414s
as opposed to private land that is currently not developed.

[00:40:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2420s
So, oh.

[00:40:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2421s
Go ahead.

[00:40:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2422s
Oh, I was going to say, so the open space land use is not intended to only be

[00:40:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2427s
publicly-

[00:40:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2428s
Okay

[00:40:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2429s
... owned land. I believe as it's written, it's already more expansive than that.

[00:40:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2434s
Because we wouldn't want to prevent Spokane County's conservation futures

[00:40:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2440s
from owning property-

[00:40:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2441s
Yes

[00:40:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2441s
... that they would like to own in perpetuity as open space,

[00:40:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2447s
that isn't owned necessarily by the city.

[00:40:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2449s
No.

[00:40:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2449s
So those kinds of things. And then I think the distinction you're kind of getting

[00:40:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2452s
at will likely come at the Build Spokane level in more than one zone

[00:40:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2458s
related to open space.

[00:40:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2459s
Okay.

[00:40:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2459s
Can I answer that a little bit?

[00:41:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2461s
Yeah.

[00:41:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2462s
So, going back to the beginnings of our discussion about open space, probably late

[00:41:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2465s
last year, to this date, we have an open space land use designation in our

[00:41:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2470s
comprehensive plan, but we don't have an open space zone.

[00:41:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2474s
And it's made it a little difficult where protection is the goal rather than open

[00:41:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2478s
use and public use to... It's just another layer to like, okay, but the zoning also

[00:41:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2484s
makes it clear this is an area of conservation.

[00:41:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2486s
Yeah.

[00:41:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2487s
So from the beginning, the discussions of Build Spokane has been to have a

[00:41:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2491s
conservation kind of open space type of zone. Now that zoning, this is land use.

[00:41:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2496s
Right. I know. It's hard because we have to wait, and they are separate.

[00:41:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2500s
Yes.

[00:41:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2501s
And they are going to be more different than they used to be.

[00:41:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2505s
So for the flume development, and why this is a topic, we don't always

[00:41:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2510s
know everywhere that people have purchased for conservation purposes.

[00:41:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2514s
Like finding that non-city-owned or non-government-owned open space is difficult.

[00:41:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2519s
Mm-hmm.

[00:42:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2520s
And so what Brandon's talking about was when we built the flume, we translated it

[00:42:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2525s
from the old system to the new system.

[00:42:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2528s
We just selected all of the parks on a layer of city parks.

[00:42:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2533s
But that, what Brandon has identified and is looking into, is there's a number of

[00:42:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2539s
properties that are really open space, but they're not actually park parks.

[00:42:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2542s
Yeah.

[00:42:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2543s
And so this is a refinement of that.

[00:42:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2545s
This doesn't mean that there isn't room to talk about another parcel that maybe a

[00:42:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2550s
property owner wants to be private.

[00:42:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2553s
Also, you'll recall the Excelsior Wellness Comp Plan amendment a couple years ago.

[00:42:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2557s
Part of their property was part of that amendment that's now being implemented, was

[00:42:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2563s
to put part of their property as open space. That'll be open space on here.

[00:42:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2566s
Even though it's privately owned, it's privately protected.

[00:42:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2570s
It's also publicly protected, but it's owned by Excelsior.

[00:42:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2574s
In addition to that, there have been several public comments,

[00:43:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2580s
either alluding to, implicitly or explicitly, that there should be

[00:43:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2584s
property that is privately owned,

[00:43:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2587s
that it be designated as open space because it's in the community's interest, but

[00:43:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2591s
not necessarily the property owner's interest.

[00:43:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2593s
Mm-hmm.

[00:43:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2594s
And my question is just

[00:43:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2600s
that's maybe a bigger question. But,

[00:43:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2604s
obviously there may be properties that are ecologically important

[00:43:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2610s
or part of habitat corridors, but they have historically not been zoned to be

[00:43:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2615s
protected. They're currently owned by a property owner who could do whatever the

[00:43:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2620s
zoning allows.

[00:43:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2622s
And it seems like there's a lot of

[00:43:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2628s
interest in that one property.

[00:43:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2630s
Mm-hmm.

[00:43:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2632s
And the property owner's interests can't be discounted.

[00:43:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2636s
Right.

[00:43:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2638s
Because they in fact do own the property.

[00:44:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2641s
And so I guess my question is like, how do we balance...

[00:44:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2645s
Well, I don't know if we have an answer, but how do you balance the different

[00:44:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2649s
competing priorities?

[00:44:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2651s
There is an example that, in the presentation slides, of private property open

[00:44:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2655s
space.

[00:44:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2656s
I'm sure there is then.

[00:44:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2658s
I think the only other, and I'm trying to remember what it's called now, something

[00:44:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2664s
east of...

[00:44:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2668s
Stormwater one?

[00:44:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2669s
No, no.

[00:44:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2670s
Hazels Creek?

[00:44:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2670s
Thank you.

[00:44:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2672s
You got there.

[00:44:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2672s
I was like, I know a few-

[00:44:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2673s
It's like Stormwater slash-

[00:44:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2675s
... particular locations where private property was designated open space as part

[00:44:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2680s
of the initial draft.

[00:44:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2681s
There-

[00:44:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2681s
So I'll put it that way. Yeah

[00:44:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2682s
... there is such a thing as private property rights.

[00:44:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2684s
Yeah.

[00:44:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2684s
And guests have rights to certain things. It's not impossible.

[00:44:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2689s
I'm not saying there's no path towards maybe identifying some land for that.

[00:44:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2694s
But we have to do it very carefully, and we have to do it systematically.

[00:44:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2697s
We cannot do it on a spot, like yard by grid.

[00:45:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2700s
Especially if it's like, "We don't like this guy.

[00:45:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2702s
He shouldn't be allowed to own." That's not possible.

[00:45:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2706s
One of the more common routes for a comprehensive plan, and this comprehensive plan

[00:45:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2710s
does this as well, is to identify areas of higher sensitivity.

[00:45:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2715s
Areas where movement corridors are known to occur, or where there is existing

[00:45:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2720s
habitat. And then through the process of through Build Spokane or other city

[00:45:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2726s
programs and policies, you can

[00:45:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2730s
work to help that property owner see there might be a better use.

[00:45:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2734s
But as far as-

[00:45:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2736s
deciding the community deciding so-and-so shouldn't be allowed to build this

[00:45:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2739s
property, that's incredibly touchy, and we'd want to be very careful how we have

[00:45:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2745s
those conversations.

[00:45:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2746s
Hazel's pretty good. The example is the, we designated the wetland open space.

[00:45:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2752s
So, it comes from maybe a mapping change, but not necessarily a

[00:45:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2757s
physical on the ground change. Development code would already prevent them from

[00:46:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2761s
likely building in that critical area.

[00:46:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2763s
But acknowledging on these larger scale areas of private property where that

[00:46:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2769s
development would not occur, we might as well acknowledge that they are what they

[00:46:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2773s
are, which is open space. But getting to Ryan's point,

[00:46:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2777s
that doesn't necessarily mean it's public property.

[00:46:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2781s
So, open space is not inherently public access for

[00:46:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2786s
something. Yeah.

[00:46:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2788s
I guess I just wondered, is there a process for getting something designated as

[00:46:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2794s
open space? And then because then the city and/or people could point to,

[00:46:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2800s
this is the process if you want to talk to the property owner and get-

[00:46:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2804s
Outside of this process-

[00:46:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2806s
Outside of the process, yeah

[00:46:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2807s
... that would definitely be comp plan amendment land.

[00:46:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2809s
Okay.

[00:46:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2810s
And we've done those. We've had property owners who've wanted to say, "This is

[00:46:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2814s
going to be in conservation, and we'd like to make sure that that's clear to

[00:46:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2819s
everybody." That's absolutely a normal comp plan amendment process.

[00:47:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2824s
So, I might be stepping on your toes with a future slide, but this is why that

[00:47:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2829s
distinction between land use and zoning is so helpful.

[00:47:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2831s
Yeah.

[00:47:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2832s
Because,

[00:47:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2834s
generally the closer you get to having actionable restrictions on somebody's

[00:47:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2839s
ability to develop, the more concerned you need to be about infringing on their

[00:47:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2843s
rights. Designating something as open space does not inherently

[00:47:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2848s
establish a limitation on what you can build.

[00:47:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2851s
It's pointing the direction for what the zoning should be.

[00:47:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2854s
To answer your question, you could imagine a strategic property that the public

[00:47:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2859s
identifies as of particular value for conservation, that's privately owned, that we

[00:47:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2864s
could apply an open space land use designation, but leave the zoning in place so

[00:47:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2869s
that the current property owner has not lost any rights to develop their land.

[00:47:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2873s
But it's identifying that as a priority for future conservation.

[00:47:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2879s
So, that could be a strategy that could make sense.

[00:48:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2882s
I think we wouldn't want to just do that willy-nilly.

[00:48:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2885s
Yeah.

[00:48:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2885s
I think you'd want to do that cautiously.

[00:48:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2888s
But it allows us to signal those intended future uses.

[00:48:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2892s
That's why it's called a future land use map.

[00:48:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2894s
And I think some of those distinctions are really important, especially in light of

[00:48:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2897s
a lot of public comment that we have received is, "Yes, we hear you.

[00:48:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2901s
These are important things. But yes, there are also private property rights that

[00:48:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2904s
are considerations here." The one question that I wanted to ask with this, and I

[00:48:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2910s
think I know the answer, but I want to be clear, is I know that once something is

[00:48:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2915s
dedicated to park land, it's very difficult to un-dedicate it.

[00:48:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2922s
That is not the case here, correct?

[00:48:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2924s
This is not dedicating it as parks, so it doesn't run into that charter restriction

[00:48:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2929s
for parks and later selling or surplusing or transfer or whatever.

[00:48:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2936s
Parks are part of open space. They are not equivalent to open space.

[00:49:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2941s
In fact, that's one distinction that we wanted to make clear.

[00:49:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2944s
That's why the language in chapter three is this, is that open space doesn't equal

[00:49:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2950s
hiking trails and public access. It might be protection, it might be the other two.

[00:49:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2955s
So...

[00:49:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2955s
Okay.

[00:49:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2957s
I guess I do think it would be important, before obviously we have a public hearing

[00:49:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2963s
on this, just for us to really understand the process.

[00:49:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2966s
If we were to designate a privately owned property as open space in a comprehensive

[00:49:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2972s
plan, what are the ramifications of that?

[00:49:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2975s
What is the process for going about identifying those potential properties?

[00:49:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2980s
Mm-hmm.

[00:49:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2981s
And what are the

[00:49:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2984s
property rights ramifications of that?

[00:49:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2987s
Because I definitely know there has been substantial public comment related to

[00:49:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2990s
that, and I fear that it'd be easy to ignore that public comment and/or brush it

[00:49:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2995s
aside.

[00:49:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=2997s
But I take that ...

[00:50:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3000s
Well, I know I've been in a lot of places in the city a lot of times.

[00:50:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3003s
I don't live in every neighborhood, and I don't know.

[00:50:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3005s
I'm not walking through the woods on, I'm not trespassing through the woods on

[00:50:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3008s
private properties, walking my dog just because it's been vacant for 50 years.

[00:50:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3012s
Not in their neighborhood at least. So.

[00:50:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3014s
About to be-

[00:50:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3015s
No, go ahead.

[00:50:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3016s
I'll just offer, I think we've actually been talking about this.

[00:50:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3020s
We do have a couple new planning commission members, and with one more coming on.

[00:50:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3025s
We try on an annual basis to do a short training on property rights, and there's a

[00:50:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3030s
letter from the State Attorney General's office that we'd like to review that kind

[00:50:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3033s
of helps everybody understand that.

[00:50:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3036s
We could set up some time for our legal department to do a short training on that,

[00:50:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3041s
preferably before the hearing, so that you guys feel like you have some confidence

[00:50:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3045s
there. So, I'll add that to the calendar if everybody's amenable to that.

[00:50:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3050s
That'd be great.

[00:50:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3051s
Mm-hmm.

[00:50:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3051s
And then I know we have many more examples we want to talk about.

[00:50:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3055s
Yeah.

[00:50:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3056s
Yeah.

[00:50:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3056s
I think the key thing we wanted to focus on here is we're really just talking about

[00:51:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3061s
city-owned property at this point for conservation or for open space.

[00:51:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3065s
Because previously it wasn't designated open space.

[00:51:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3067s
Because, yeah, it hadn't been designated previously, and I think for our purposes,

[00:51:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3072s
what would be helpful to know is, is the planning commission generally comfortable

[00:51:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3077s
with us preparing those changes and giving them to you

[00:51:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3083s
as just sort of a package in a spreadsheet or something, rather than having to go

[00:51:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3087s
through one by one and identify each property?

[00:51:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3089s
Yes.

[00:51:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3090s
It didn't feel like a great use of time for us to go through every single property

[00:51:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3094s
owner.

[00:51:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3094s
Yeah.

[00:51:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3094s
So, I hope that's great.

[00:51:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3096s
Sure. Okay. And we can go back through it on the process.

[00:51:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3100s
That's okay. Yeah.

[00:51:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3102s
Okay. So one of the elements of the preferred alternative was additional

[00:51:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3109s
mixed use and housing in Vinegar Flats along Inland Empire Way.

[00:51:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3114s
So, on the left is the existing land use map, highlighting on the east side of

[00:51:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3119s
Inland Empire Way along Latok Creek, the agriculture, and then

[00:52:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3125s
residential low as being the primary land use in that area with a few mixed

[00:52:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3131s
use properties. On the right is the draft land use map, the staff identification

[00:52:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3137s
of how to implement that preferred alternative, looking at essentially

[00:52:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3142s
combining the

[00:52:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3145s
existing mixed use properties, and supporting that with residential high around it,

[00:52:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3150s
as well as to the north of that mixed use and shortly west of Inland Empire Way,

[00:52:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3155s
and I guess use my cursor potentially.

[00:52:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3158s
You can see additional agriculture applied to existing agricultural

[00:52:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3164s
operations.

[00:52:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3166s
We have received a number of public comments asking for additional

[00:52:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3172s
and/or different locations within this area for mixed use.

[00:52:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3177s
The properties on the north side, I don't know if I can get-

[00:53:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3181s
Extending up that cultural-

[00:53:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3183s
Go down to the laser pointer and it'll highlight it.

[00:53:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3186s
Here we go. There are requests up here for these existing agricultural properties

[00:53:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3191s
to be designated mixed use, as well as separate property owners requesting

[00:53:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3198s
mixed use along Inland Empire Way, further north than what we had originally

[00:53:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3202s
proposed. So, given that some of those properties are existing

[00:53:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3208s
agriculture properties and the community desire, CRSP

[00:53:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3214s
also had a desire, planning commission defined agriculture confidently as

[00:53:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3219s
agriculture with some housing, not housing with agriculture.

[00:53:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3222s
So given all of those layers, wanted to bring this forward as a question of,

[00:53:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3230s
do we reconsider the as proposed given

[00:53:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3235s
the multiple requests we've received in this area? Do we go as proposed?

[00:54:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3240s
We just wanted to have a conversation with you about this area, and if it means

[00:54:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3246s
coming back at the next meeting and with time to think about it, then coming back,

[00:54:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3250s
that's also an opportunity.

[00:54:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3251s
Are there existing properties being used as business properties

[00:54:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3257s
within there? That's the issue, right?

[00:54:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3259s
The current use of those properties is-

[00:54:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3266s
So, some of them, yeah. Some of them are operations related to agriculture.

[00:54:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3271s
Some are just large buildings.

[00:54:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3272s
Right. Yeah.

[00:54:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3274s
The ones that we're being requested to add are those northern

[00:54:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3280s
parcels. They want it to be the mix.

[00:54:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3283s
They're not as clearly... It's hard to say.

[00:54:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3286s
It's-

[00:54:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3287s
I think there is no current business operation

[00:54:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3289s
... I don't believe there's a business there, but-

[00:54:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3290s
All of the-

[00:54:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3291s
Buildings, but not businesses

[00:54:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3292s
... all of the requests that we're getting are not about creating conformity with

[00:54:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3297s
existing development.

[00:54:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3298s
Yeah.

[00:54:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3298s
That's what that one is.

[00:54:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3299s
That's coming from property owners. Yes.

[00:55:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3302s
Yeah. At least the one related to the northern portion.

[00:55:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3305s
These, the current owner of what was an agriculture operation, but it's

[00:55:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3311s
not anymore, it's permanently closed.

[00:55:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3316s
That is a request for mixed use, and then there's a separate request for

[00:55:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3319s
considering more mixed use just along Inland Empire Way between that and the

[00:55:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3324s
existing location of the other buildings.

[00:55:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3327s
Just to give you some context, we do have two small mobile home parks in the

[00:55:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3333s
residential low that you see on the west side just south of 20.

[00:55:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3336s
There you go, right there. Which is why they were left, that's why we left it

[00:55:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3339s
alone. Also, when we were originally discussing this with you and internally, we

[00:55:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3345s
tried to be very light with any de-designation of agriculture because there

[00:55:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3351s
just isn't that much.

[00:55:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3354s
And in this case, there were enough comments from folks about food access and

[00:55:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3359s
local food production and local agriculture, that we tried to be very careful.

[00:56:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3365s
But that's not your limitation, that was ours.

[00:56:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3367s
So that's why we're coming to you to get some input as to what you think as far as

[00:56:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3373s
expansion or movement or change.

[00:56:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3377s
We have similar concerns that we do further down the

[00:56:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3382s
195 corridor about egress and utility sufficiency and

[00:56:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3388s
some of those challenges here. Or is it because we've got that out to the north,

[00:56:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3393s
it's less-

[00:56:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3394s
Yes.

[00:56:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3395s
Yeah.

[00:56:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3396s
In this case, this area as a mixed use, and some

[00:56:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3400s
RH, is really predicated on that Inland Empire Way connection being restored, which

[00:56:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3406s
is in the plan. That's in the comp plan as well, is to restore that connection.

[00:56:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3411s
Without that connection, even from a market standpoint, we're not entirely sure

[00:56:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3416s
that you could do what this is showing.

[00:56:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3418s
Yeah.

[00:57:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3420s
It all works together to make this successful.

[00:57:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3422s
It's better to have throughput, and at this time, Inland Empire Way ends.

[00:57:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3428s
Yeah, so.

[00:57:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3429s
I'll just add, as far as 195 operations goes, that connection from

[00:57:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3434s
195 or the through connection of Inland Empire Way is one of the strategies that's

[00:57:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3439s
been adopted regionally to address those 195 issues.

[00:57:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3443s
So the fact that this is further north on Inland Empire Way, I would say is

[00:57:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3446s
consistent with that solution.

[00:57:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3449s
Yeah, I just think we want to be, in addition to the points that you mentioned, to

[00:57:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3454s
be careful about de-designating agriculture.

[00:57:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3459s
But I think we want to just be really, really cognizant down there about not adding

[00:57:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3464s
to the problem.

[00:57:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3467s
But point well taken if that's what property owners are looking for. Yeah.

[00:57:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3475s
But at the same

[00:58:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3481s
time, it feels a little...

[00:58:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3483s
I know we're not doing zoning here-

[00:58:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3484s
Yeah

[00:58:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3484s
... but it feels a little spot zoning-y to just do that parcel and...

[00:58:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3492s
I think what might help your thinking, it might maybe focus, I think what if you

[00:58:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3497s
consider it is, the question that we're really considering on our end too is, is

[00:58:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3503s
it taking this mixed use node and moving it north?

[00:58:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3508s
Is it stretching it out along the entire length, or is it having two nodes, a small

[00:58:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3512s
node at the north? If you have feelings on those, on which of those you prefer, we

[00:58:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3518s
can look at it and come back. We do have one more workshop in two weeks, so

[00:58:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3524s
that would help us as well. We're not expecting you to know every detail about

[00:58:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3528s
these properties. We'll have to go look at them no matter what.

[00:58:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3531s
But that would help as well if you have some feelings on shape.

[00:58:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3535s
Just from my perspective, narrowing it and stretching it seems the most logical,

[00:59:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3540s
but I don't want to get into the fallacy of looking at something in a plan drawing

[00:59:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3545s
and assuming that that's the best reality on the ground.

[00:59:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3548s
And I don't know if those are one parcel deep, and that's what's generated that

[00:59:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3551s
width in the purple right there. I would assume it is.

[00:59:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3553s
They are one parcel, but they're larger than a single-family home parcel.

[00:59:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3556s
Oh, sure. Yeah. Sure. So, if that's the case, then they're skinnying it up.

[00:59:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3562s
Is it really possible? So-

[00:59:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3564s
We would end up with cross designations if we-

[00:59:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3566s
Yeah, and we don't want to do that, and so you would be dragging this really fat

[00:59:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3571s
line up through, which runs into de-designating a lot of the agriculture, which I

[00:59:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3577s
think runs some issues down there.

[00:59:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3581s
So I guess given all of that, maybe it's not the end of the world to have a sort of

[00:59:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3586s
a split area.

[00:59:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3591s
Yeah.

[00:59:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3593s
We could come up with an alternative to show you next time that's got a little

[00:59:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3597s
smaller node up at the top, up along just south of the park and

[01:00:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3603s
avoiding the conservation area.

[01:00:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3605s
That's worth considering.

[01:00:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3607s
We can look into that. I do think in total, just conceptually, if these properties

[01:00:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3612s
were to be designated or portions of them, recognizing that we also

[01:00:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3618s
added additional agriculture land use,

[01:00:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3622s
the total land use might be about even in the end.

[01:00:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3627s
I guess that's something I'd be curious to know as well, is what percentage of the

[01:00:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3630s
agricultural land use in this area would we be reducing?

[01:00:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3637s
Okay. Between 5% versus 30%, there's a very much difference.

[01:00:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3643s
The math's really easy because it's the only place we have RA, agriculture, so.

[01:00:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3647s
It's also difficult, though, because it's the only place in the city.

[01:00:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3650s
We'll give you some summary statistics on that.

[01:00:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3652s
We can look into how to do that north node and see maybe there's an extent to that

[01:00:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3656s
that makes sense. So I'm just trying to think, what number does that look like?

[01:01:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3660s
So if we report current acreage of ag designated versus proposed acreage-

[01:01:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3665s
Yeah

[01:01:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3666s
... under whatever scenarios we bring forward. Yeah. And there'd be two scenarios.

[01:01:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3669s
There'd be this draft map that everyone's seen, and then with the changes that

[01:01:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3674s
we've discussed here. So we can give you those three to look at.

[01:01:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3678s
Here's a weird question. Can you do agriculture and mixed use?

[01:01:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3685s
Certain uses would, I think not be, would be prohibited. Yes.

[01:01:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3690s
Things like animal husbandry. Yeah. It would limit the choice.

[01:01:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3694s
Also, just from the description of what the ag designation is,

[01:01:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3700s
it doesn't make it very clear the ag value of that property, whereas designating it

[01:01:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3706s
mixed, it could be anything. Yeah.

[01:01:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3708s
There's no ag mix, nor would I suggest we have an ag mix.

[01:01:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3712s
I'm just picturing in my head some-

[01:01:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3715s
There are some things-

[01:01:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3716s
... outcomes like the thing in Davis that's got gardens weaved around through the

[01:02:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3720s
middle of it, and it's this bucolic thing that everyone loves and is- We have an

[01:02:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3725s
urban agriculture ordinance already.

[01:02:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3727s
Mm-hmm.

[01:02:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3727s
That would be those compatible uses, but we should actually be protecting farmland

[01:02:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3732s
from non-conforming uses because otherwise they get subject to nuisance lawsuits.

[01:02:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3738s
So that's why we have the Farmland Protection Act in Washington, but it's not very

[01:02:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3742s
strong.

[01:02:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3744s
In general, we consider mixed to be more intense/dense.

[01:02:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3749s
So by putting more mixed in this location, we could be bringing more people in that

[01:02:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3754s
we could cause additional conflicts with the operations of the existing ag.

[01:02:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3759s
Yeah.

[01:02:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3760s
Those are the kind of things-

[01:02:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3762s
Place, one of the two.

[01:02:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3764s
These are the fun things we get to ask you guys because they're the great

[01:02:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3766s
questions, so.

[01:02:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3767s
Yeah. I acknowledge that it was a weird question, but-

[01:02:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3770s
No, it's-

[01:02:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3770s
... I thought I'd ask it anyway.

[01:02:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3771s
I thought of it a few minutes ago, and I was kind of chewing on it too, so it's not

[01:02:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3775s
unreasonable. But what we'll do is we'll come back with a two-node

[01:03:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3781s
approach with some summary statistics just to give you an idea of what you're

[01:03:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3784s
talking about, and we'll give it to you next time.

[01:03:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3787s
Okay.

[01:03:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3788s
Okay.

[01:03:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3788s
Moving on.

[01:03:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3790s
This is a request both from the neighborhood, Anderson-Griffith neighborhood and

[01:03:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3794s
Historic Preservation, to consider removal of residential high on the

[01:03:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3800s
east side of Corbin Park. So the top picture being the existing land use,

[01:03:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3807s
bottom being the draft land use, where there's that buffer off of division of

[01:03:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3811s
residential high. The black box shows the historic district around Corbin Park, and

[01:03:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3817s
just a request of essentially three half blocks to be removed

[01:03:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3822s
from that residential high designation.

[01:03:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3830s
I hear the concern, certainly. Part of me asks the

[01:03:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3836s
question, I see Bill's got your hand up.

[01:04:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3842s
Because this is a local district- Are there not standards in place

[01:04:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3848s
that prevent--

[01:04:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3850s
I see you, Jill, is before you, and then we can come to you.

[01:04:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3853s
Are there not standards that would prevent out-of-scale development from

[01:04:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3859s
occurring through the historic code rather than through this code?

[01:04:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3864s
I believe what was brought before you most recently was the 150% of existing

[01:04:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3869s
structure is the maximum size of the new structure.

[01:04:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3872s
And design review-

[01:04:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3873s
Still require review and all of that.

[01:04:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3875s
So it wouldn't outright prohibit development at this-

[01:04:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3878s
No, certainly not, but it would prohibit-

[01:04:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3881s
Yeah

[01:04:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3881s
... five-story high rises. So I guess that maybe

[01:04:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3887s
begs the question in my mind of is it even really necessary, but, Jill, go ahead.

[01:04:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3894s
Hey, guys. Thank you. I was just wondering, first of all, is there a new slide?

[01:04:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3899s
Oh, there it is. I really wanted to see that.

[01:05:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3902s
Oh, it was taking a while, wasn't it?

[01:05:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3905s
It was.

[01:05:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3905s
Sorry about that.

[01:05:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3906s
It was.

[01:05:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3907s
It was.

[01:05:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3907s
And

[01:05:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3910s
so now that I'm seeing it, I wanted to make sure I was looking at it accurately.

[01:05:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3914s
And I just think it's so important that we

[01:05:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3918s
don't focus exclusively on that corridor, because that doesn't make for a

[01:05:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3923s
walkable, and engaged community.

[01:05:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3926s
You have to have

[01:05:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3928s
the bubbles, like what we've been talking about, the nodes and stuff.

[01:05:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3933s
And there is a lot of protection

[01:05:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3936s
already involved. So anyways, thank you. I was really talking about the slide.

[01:05:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3941s
Okay. So you

[01:05:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3943s
should see Corbin Park on your slide now, Jill. Do you?

[01:05:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3946s
I see it now. Thank you.

[01:05:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3947s
Okay.

[01:05:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3948s
Yeah.

[01:05:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3948s
Perfect. Just making sure.

[01:05:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3949s
Mm-hmm.

[01:05:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3950s
Yep. We're good. Okay. Linda, did you have a comment?

[01:05:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3953s
Yeah, I just wanted to note that Corbin Park Historic District is on the National

[01:05:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3958s
Register and on the state register.

[01:06:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3960s
Is it on the-

[01:06:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3960s
And on the local

[01:06:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3961s
... it's the local, because the local one is the one with teeth.

[01:06:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3964s
Right. But the thing is, it started at the national.

[01:06:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3966s
It first got recognition at the national level, and then it worked its way down.

[01:06:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3969s
Okay. Yeah.

[01:06:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3970s
And it's also recognized for urban planning and for architectural planning as

[01:06:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3976s
well as the architecture itself.

[01:06:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3980s
I do see we have Megan Duvall on here, and Megan, if you're busy, you don't

[01:06:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3985s
need to jump in, but maybe if you are available, you could comment just quickly on

[01:06:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3992s
the historic district designation and how that interplays with development

[01:06:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=3996s
proposals. And I can fill in for her if she's busy, because she may just be

[01:06:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4001s
listening in while she works on other things.

[01:06:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4004s
Appreciate that.

[01:06:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4006s
I am listening.

[01:06:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4008s
Appreciate it. That's great.

[01:06:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4010s
Sure.

[01:06:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4014s
I'm sorry, Spencer. Basically just weigh in on that.

[01:06:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4017s
So yeah, so underlying zoning doesn't change in terms of

[01:07:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4024s
what can be built. But for us, we sort of looked at it and said, "Well, why bother

[01:07:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4030s
upzoning that particular area?" Because all it does is it creates an untenable for

[01:07:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4035s
us, somebody buys a property and says, "Well, the zoning says this."

[01:07:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4040s
And then we're left to be like, "Well, yeah, it does say that you can build five

[01:07:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4044s
stories, but it doesn't fit in with the rest of the neighborhood." So it'd be

[01:07:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4050s
easier for us if that part was removed.

[01:07:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4053s
We do have

[01:07:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4055s
design review of new construction, and we also have design review over

[01:07:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4062s
demolitions, so we can deny demolitions to contributing properties in historic

[01:07:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4067s
districts. But anyway, I think that was our thought.

[01:07:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4071s
I don't know if Logan's also listening.

[01:07:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4073s
I don't know if you had anything else to add, Logan.

[01:08:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4081s
Well, sorry to put you on the spot.

[01:08:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4084s
No, that's okay.

[01:08:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4086s
Thank you.

[01:08:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4086s
He must not. Okay.

[01:08:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4088s
I guess just echoing Megan's comment, in some ways

[01:08:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4093s
by leaving that area within the historic district

[01:08:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4099s
designated as residential high, it creates a conflict between

[01:08:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4106s
the historic district's overlay and the land use map, and could lead to

[01:08:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4113s
conflict, whereas leaving it designated as residential, or within the

[01:08:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4118s
district

[01:08:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4121s
puts the land use map in alignment with the historic district.

[01:08:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4124s
And I don't think that being designated residential low would prevent any

[01:08:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4128s
development that is 150% of what's already there.

[01:08:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4132s
Because you'd be able to, anything that's a residential low, you can do a sixplex.

[01:08:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4135s
You know, you could do all sorts of stuff that's going to be well beyond 150%.

[01:09:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4140s
And I don't think anything that would be like RMF would, I don't think-

[01:09:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4145s
Or you could never get it, yeah.

[01:09:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4148s
Yeah. I would just say as far as

[01:09:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4152s
for transparency and ease of use, it probably would make it

[01:09:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4158s
easier for people that they don't have to check three different layers.

[01:09:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4164s
So I do agree that carving that chunk out would probably help

[01:09:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4170s
with that process. I do still have some conflict just on the

[01:09:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4176s
concept of carving out specific parcels.

[01:09:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4182s
But

[01:09:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4185s
from this point of view,

[01:09:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4188s
and for the fact that it's already on the edge, it does seem to make sense.

[01:09:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4193s
It's just the blocks abutting the park.

[01:09:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4197s
Yeah. It's just the half black line.

[01:09:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4199s
Yeah. So the historic district are the half blocks facing the park, and then on the

[01:10:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4203s
east end, it's the whole block on the east end.

[01:10:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4207s
So we could just trim the RH off of those, and then the historic district would be

[01:10:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4213s
consistent. The flow would be consistent with the historic district.

[01:10:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4217s
Yeah, I just wanted to confirm that. So because initially I was misunderstanding.

[01:10:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4222s
Sure.

[01:10:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4223s
What is being requested is only within that black boundary-

[01:10:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4227s
Yeah

[01:10:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4227s
... which would leave some of the residential high designation around division.

[01:10:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4232s
Yeah.

[01:10:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4233s
Are we all understanding that? Okay.

[01:10:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4237s
Yeah.

[01:10:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4237s
Got it.

[01:10:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4237s
Yeah. I agree. I think it's such a small change that it doesn't...

[01:10:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4240s
I do have concerns about opening the floodgates for,

[01:10:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4246s
well, my neighborhood should be excluded for this reason, and my neighborhood

[01:10:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4249s
should be excluded for this reason, but this is in fact a documented set of codes

[01:10:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4254s
that's underlying this-

[01:10:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4256s
Mm-hmm

[01:10:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4256s
... and not a subjective, I don't like-

[01:10:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4259s
Not saying all situations are equal.

[01:11:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4261s
Yeah.

[01:11:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4262s
In this situation, you support.

[01:11:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4264s
Yes.

[01:11:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4264s
It's already hard enough trying to delve into what's allowed where.

[01:11:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4270s
Yeah. And back to Tim's conversation about predictability and clarity and all of

[01:11:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4274s
that, it probably does make sense.

[01:11:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4276s
Thank you.

[01:11:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4277s
Great.

[01:11:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4278s
Okay, so another point of comments was questions about Hamilton Street.

[01:11:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4284s
So in the draft proposal, there are no

[01:11:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4289s
changes proposed between Indiana on Hamilton.

[01:11:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4291s
I guess I should just give a quick context.

[01:11:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4293s
Hamilton, down in the bottom left, that blue is Gonzaga's campus to the west.

[01:11:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4298s
Ruby/Division is along the west side of this picture.

[01:11:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4303s
There was no draft proposed changes between Indiana

[01:11:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4308s
and Marietta, so just south of North Foothills in that area,

[01:11:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4314s
along that corridor. Recently we had South Logan TOD plan, which had that

[01:11:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4319s
northern-most boundary of Indiana, so there was a lot of changes to the south of

[01:12:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4324s
that area. And that along with...

[01:12:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4328s
Mainly that was the reason that we, as staff, had not put additional

[01:12:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4334s
mixed use or residential high along this route.

[01:12:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4337s
However, a number of public comments have asked what makes this any different than

[01:12:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4342s
North Monroe or East Frank or some of the other things where we have done a

[01:12:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4346s
treatment of a full block on each side of the main street of mixed use followed by

[01:12:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4352s
another block or two of residential high.

[01:12:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4354s
So just asking, should it receive similar treatment?

[01:12:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4359s
There's been questions about that further north.

[01:12:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4362s
Yeah.

[01:12:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4362s
That was

[01:12:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4364s
removed from the preferred alternative when we were having those discussions for

[01:12:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4367s
displacement concerns. So this is truly the bounds of that conversation on

[01:12:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4371s
Hamilton. It wouldn't be continuing up all the way throughout the city.

[01:12:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4375s
But in this particular area,

[01:12:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4379s
we would like your feedback on whether it should remain as proposed or potentially

[01:13:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4384s
see additional changes based on treatment similarity.

[01:13:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4389s
I do agree that it should be treated similarly to Sprague and Monroe in that

[01:13:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4396s
otherwise we're going to run into the same problems that we've been bumping up into

[01:13:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4399s
already with our centers and corridors of people who have properties that face the

[01:13:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4403s
street, and it's just this hard, tight, little boundary.

[01:13:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4409s
And the rest of that corridor is already a kind of mix of

[01:13:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4414s
residential, school, business, along that entire corridor,

[01:13:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4420s
and keeping that hard corridor, I think will be problematic over the

[01:13:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4426s
next 20 years.

[01:13:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4428s
I do say though, the displacement concerns in that area

[01:13:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4434s
don't, to me, feel fundamentally different than north of Foothills.

[01:13:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4438s
Within the low-intensity residential on either side, I would have that

[01:14:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4444s
same... I wouldn't feel differently about this area than I would feel about that

[01:14:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4449s
issue north of Foothills. I travel this corridor a lot.

[01:14:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4454s
So just with all the construction and everything-

[01:14:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4456s
Yeah

[01:14:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4456s
... coming through here way too much right now.

[01:14:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4459s
And yeah, it feels a little bit different-

[01:14:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4462s
Yeah

[01:14:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4462s
... relative to, say, it feels like a more minor

[01:14:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4466s
sort of arterial than some of those other bigger ones do.

[01:14:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4469s
But your point is also well taken about having some elbow room and some

[01:14:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4475s
flexibility. My feeling though, is that most of that activity is south

[01:14:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4480s
of Illinois or Indiana, whatever.

[01:14:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4486s
I always get those two mixed up for some reason.

[01:14:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4488s
You know where that obvious stoplight is.

[01:14:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4489s
Yeah. Totally.

[01:14:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4492s
So yeah, I

[01:14:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4496s
don't strong feeling either way on any like that. Linda?

[01:15:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4501s
Having grown up in what was then known as St.

[01:15:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4503s
Albans Parish and not Logan, I'd share the questions about displacement.

[01:15:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4508s
I think there's still a certain number of more or less affordable homes

[01:15:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4514s
there, and I'm a little concerned about if we start moving out too far from

[01:15:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4519s
Hamilton,

[01:15:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4522s
that some of those homes with some of those...

[01:15:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4525s
Maybe, to my opinion, too many folks might face displacement there.

[01:15:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4531s
I don't know. Those are kind of big family homes that I went to St. Albans School.

[01:15:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4535s
Their kids lived there and what...

[01:15:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4537s
Anyway, maybe I'm just being a little too sentimental, but.

[01:15:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4542s
They're not real big on Nevada.

[01:15:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4546s
Those houses are clearly one-family

[01:15:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4552s
houses. I grew up in that area as well.

[01:15:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4555s
There's always been businesses along the corridor.

[01:16:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4561s
So acknowledging that-

[01:16:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4562s
The heck that you just did is what we all do. It goes both ways.

[01:16:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4568s
Is there a balance where we're not necessarily widening the mixed use zoning, but

[01:16:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4571s
we're creating a buffer, a residential high?

[01:16:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4574s
We leave the narrow mixed use, we have a-

[01:16:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4576s
I think that's-

[01:16:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4576s
... residential-

[01:16:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4577s
Yeah

[01:16:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4577s
... potentially completing the block, if you will, on each side-

[01:16:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4580s
That's-

[01:16:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4580s
... with a residential high, but not going as-

[01:16:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4583s
That's essentially what we did in the Flume on Monroe.

[01:16:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4586s
Yeah.

[01:16:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4587s
Was not to extend the mix so much as it was to allow that RH on either side.

[01:16:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4594s
Perfect.

[01:16:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4594s
I'm just imagining from a developer's perspective as well, that they might be

[01:16:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4598s
buying three or four properties that are adjacent, and they might still be able to

[01:16:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4602s
do their mixed-use project even if the adjacent parcel is residential high because

[01:16:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4606s
part of the property is multifamily and part of it is mixed use, and the mixed use

[01:16:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4610s
portion is more likely to be facing into the corridor.

[01:16:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4613s
Are we talking one lot line deep, though?

[01:16:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4616s
Because we are running into barriers to neighborhood grocery.

[01:16:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4619s
Yes.

[01:16:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4619s
I think we're talking a block deep. Yeah.

[01:17:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4621s
Okay, great.

[01:17:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4622s
Yeah.

[01:17:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4622s
Yeah.

[01:17:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4623s
Well-

[01:17:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4623s
Yeah, the one lot line thing is really terribly... Yeah.

[01:17:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4628s
Scale, is that correct?

[01:17:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4629s
That's the alley.

[01:17:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4629s
Okay. Because this is a little complex-

[01:17:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4633s
They don't really have them right there

[01:17:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4634s
... I'm going to pull up the zoomable map of how this looks here for a second.

[01:17:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4639s
Yeah.

[01:17:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4640s
Yeah. That's okay. I was going to ask you those questions because I can't see.

[01:17:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4642s
No, it's fine. That's why we have this.

[01:17:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4645s
We do need to be mindful of time here because we had a bunch of extra time and

[01:17:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4649s
we've been using it.

[01:17:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4649s
I mean, we're just all talking about open space.

[01:17:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4653s
So,

[01:17:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4655s
hopefully what you can see... Yeah, you can see it. All right.

[01:17:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4658s
So right now, what is along the corridor here is a single parcel.

[01:17:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4663s
On the west side, if you wanted to just complete the block, Cincinnati does provide

[01:17:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4669s
a nice boundary on the west side. What that means is that you could, on Cincinnati,

[01:17:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4674s
have a multifamily across the street from single family.

[01:17:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4678s
It's not the end of the world. I'm just saying that's the line.

[01:18:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4682s
On the east side, obviously, we would want to be sensitive about Logan Elementary,

[01:18:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4686s
but this northern bit, Nevada is just like Cincinnati. It would complete the block.

[01:18:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4692s
As you get further south, of course, the streetcar blocks all rotate 90 degrees.

[01:18:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4697s
You could talk about maybe half of that.

[01:18:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4700s
We could pick a line, approximately the alignment of Nevada.

[01:18:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4705s
That would be here, where my mouse is. I don't know if you guys can see it.

[01:18:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4710s
So if we continue the line of Nevada, it would add three to four properties on the

[01:18:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4715s
east side of the mixed zone. As you get further down here, it's more like three

[01:18:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4720s
properties each. It provides that additional depth.

[01:18:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4723s
It does give you a little bit of buffering.

[01:18:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4725s
What you do get on the east side, and this just happens, is you have a

[01:18:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4731s
multifamily next to a single family, but Bill Spokan is supposed to be looking at

[01:18:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4736s
those transitions as well to try to help that.

[01:18:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4737s
We already have that angled transition-

[01:19:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4740s
Yeah, our current code has that now, where that last lot's height might be limited

[01:19:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4744s
in order to provide a transition.

[01:19:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4746s
Yeah.

[01:19:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4746s
What we want to avoid is the wall. We have this, and then there's a house next

[01:19:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4751s
door. And so anyway, my rapid suggestion would be

[01:19:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4756s
maybe Cincinnati on the east would be a very limited expansion. Nevada on the...

[01:19:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4762s
Or I'm sorry, Cincinnati on the west, Nevada on the east, and then we'll attempt to

[01:19:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4766s
continue that line southward until we hit the rest of the RMH at India.

[01:19:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4772s
If you're okay with that, we can draw that.

[01:19:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4774s
And you probably want to deal with the split designation of the Logan Elementary

[01:19:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4779s
site.

[01:19:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4780s
Oh, yeah.

[01:19:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4780s
Yeah.

[01:19:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4780s
Just whatever the school-

[01:19:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4782s
Just to-

[01:19:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4783s
Cool.

[01:19:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4783s
Yeah. And potentially that gets left as residential low, a number of the other

[01:19:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4786s
schools that-

[01:19:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4787s
Yeah, just move out the high school.

[01:19:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4789s
Yeah.

[01:19:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4789s
But yeah.

[01:19:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4790s
That's how we've done-

[01:19:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4791s
Something to be consistent there.

[01:19:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4793s
All the way to Hamilton, take the RL all the way to Hamilton.

[01:19:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4798s
Because right now the western little bit of their schoolyard is mixed.

[01:20:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4802s
Yeah.

[01:20:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4802s
Yeah.

[01:20:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4803s
I would, yeah. Carve that out.

[01:20:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4805s
Yeah.

[01:20:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4805s
Yeah. That's possible. I'm seeing nods. I'm not hearing.

[01:20:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4808s
I just want to make sure-

[01:20:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4809s
Yeah

[01:20:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4809s
... because this is kind of consensus, so.

[01:20:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4811s
Awesome.

[01:20:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4811s
All right. We will do that. I'll give you back your presentation as soon as you're

[01:20:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4816s
ready.

[01:20:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4819s
Okay. And then...

[01:20:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4822s
And I got to use my map. I've had this map for five meetings, and we just haven't

[01:20:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4827s
had a need for it yet, so.

[01:20:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4829s
Good.

[01:20:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4829s
Okay, so the next few slides are in either direction, South Hill

[01:20:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4835s
questions related to residential high.

[01:20:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4837s
So in some respect, the first two are going to be requests to potentially expand

[01:20:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4842s
residential high compared to what was put into the

[01:20:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4846s
draft land use map, and then it'll be followed by a number of

[01:20:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4851s
requests

[01:20:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4855s
from the Comstock neighborhood, sorry, had to get the neighborhoods mixed,

[01:21:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4860s
to potentially reduce some of what was proposed.

[01:21:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4863s
So, the first one being in the Perry District, the existing land use map

[01:21:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4868s
has residential high on the north half of this map.

[01:21:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4874s
The staff proposed expansions are to the east and west of the Perry District

[01:21:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4879s
itself, including a few additional properties designated mixed use to, again,

[01:21:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4885s
talking about the large enough to have that developable parcel without being that

[01:21:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4891s
single parcel deep. The requests for comments have

[01:21:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4896s
asked us to consider

[01:21:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4900s
wrapping that residential high around the entirety of the Perry District.

[01:21:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4904s
And so that is-

[01:21:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4904s
I was just going to say, what's the southern boundary of the purple on the-

[01:21:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4908s
12th Avenue.

[01:21:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4909s
12th Avenue.

[01:21:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4910s
Yeah. Which is right now where the businesses stop right now.

[01:21:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4913s
Yes. That is the last of the Perry District as it's developed.

[01:21:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4917s
The pie always is showing through there thinking, "Wow, wouldn't it be great if

[01:22:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4920s
this could just continue?"

[01:22:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4921s
I know. There's supposed to be a-

[01:22:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4924s
Around the corner.

[01:22:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4924s
Yeah.

[01:22:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4926s
Right.

[01:22:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4928s
So, Grant Park, Grant Elementary,

[01:22:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4932s
that's right here. Again, this is a case where residential high, even though it's

[01:22:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4937s
just about conforming-

[01:22:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4938s
Yeah

[01:22:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4939s
... with what's around it, not necessarily saying that it'll develop.

[01:22:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4941s
Understood.

[01:22:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4942s
So this is the north side with the greenhouse-

[01:22:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4946s
Okay

[01:22:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4948s
The gas station, Zurich Way, a few of the different businesses and restaurants are

[01:22:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4952s
kind of in this core area, and then down to Odyssey Food at the end.

[01:22:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4958s
All right.

[01:22:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4958s
Dentist.

[01:22:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4961s
Our aerial's a couple years old. We're a couple months from getting the new ones

[01:22:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4964s
in.

[01:22:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4964s
But questions about whether

[01:22:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4968s
you would consider expanding the residential high to surround the entirety of that

[01:22:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4972s
business district.

[01:22:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4972s
I think if it's that area, yes, definitely.

[01:22:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4975s
That's such a logical node and such an appealing place, that

[01:23:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4981s
that's one of those places that we want to, I would think, if we're being-

[01:23:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4985s
Yeah, if we're doing this, we're talking about the north end

[01:23:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4988s
... consistent with the things that we're talking about.

[01:23:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4989s
Well, and if we're talking about identifying nodes where people want to be, and

[01:23:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4993s
they want to gather, and there's things that they want to do, and there's transit,

[01:23:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=4997s
we ought to be allowing more intensity there.

[01:23:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5001s
Yeah. And the transit runs directly up-

[01:23:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5003s
Yeah

[01:23:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5004s
... Perry there.

[01:23:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5005s
That's a sort of a no-brainer to me.

[01:23:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5007s
With that in mind, sorry to cut you off, but

[01:23:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5011s
what would be a boundary that you would-

[01:23:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5014s
I think right

[01:23:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5015s
... just along the block each?

[01:23:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5017s
Yeah.

[01:23:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5018s
Okay.

[01:23:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5018s
So Ivory's that north-south that goes right through the middle of the park, like it

[01:23:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5022s
used to, one day.

[01:23:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5023s
Yeah. It used to, but they-

[01:23:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5024s
It was actually a little closer

[01:23:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5025s
Yeah.

[01:23:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5025s
Trust me, I like the park. Don't get me wrong.

[01:23:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5028s
So that Ivory would be the west, then the east, we just continue down Helena, and

[01:23:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5034s
then we just take it down a block to 13th, if that's okay?

[01:23:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5037s
Yeah. What would the north be? There's not like a street there.

[01:24:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5042s
11th along the park, down

[01:24:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5046s
Ivory, across 13th, which is one block south of the end of the business district,

[01:24:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5052s
and then east to

[01:24:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5055s
Helena.

[01:24:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5056s
That's south.

[01:24:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5057s
All in a range. South is one block south of what is the existing end of the

[01:24:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5061s
business district, so on 13th.

[01:24:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5063s
So there's a street. 13th is straight.

[01:24:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5066s
Yeah.

[01:24:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5067s
Yeah. It's very-

[01:24:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5068s
It's 14th, it breaks.

[01:24:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5070s
Yeah. 14th that has the stairs that they were supposed to redo that-

[01:24:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5073s
Yeah. 14th has a weird little thing in it, and I think it's like a third section.

[01:24:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5079s
Because yesterday I walked that.

[01:24:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5079s
Well, yeah, it's like an alley now, but it's technically a street. But anyway.

[01:24:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5083s
Thank you.

[01:24:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5083s
That helps us because we can wrap that, and we'll show that on the next one.

[01:24:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5087s
Similar questions about expansion.

[01:24:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5089s
So this is the South Hill end of Grand, if you will, as it almost

[01:24:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5095s
gets to High Drive but is not there. So it's 37th and Grand.

[01:24:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5099s
The 29th and Grand

[01:25:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5103s
mixed use has been expanded up along Grand, which was part of that preferred

[01:25:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5107s
alternative. And questions about whether to go any further south with the

[01:25:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5111s
residential high.

[01:25:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5114s
The staff decision to wrap the mixed use at the level that it was, was based off of

[01:25:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5120s
the existing transit access and those kinds of things.

[01:25:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5123s
So a decision to go further than that, while still, as you can see in the preferred

[01:25:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5128s
alternative, generally, we would kind of want that to be directed by-

[01:25:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5132s
Starbucks is on the corner.

[01:25:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5134s
Is that 13th? That's 13th? Okay.

[01:25:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5136s
The school on the northwest corner, Starbuck's, and a few on the other side.

[01:25:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5141s
Yeah. Is in that-

[01:25:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5142s
What will be now a new fitness center.

[01:25:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5144s
Nope, they decided-

[01:25:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5146s
They backed out.

[01:25:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5147s
They officially canceled that front end.

[01:25:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5149s
Sorry about that. I'm a little behind.

[01:25:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5153s
But that's what that parking lot is.

[01:25:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5154s
And the big issue-

[01:25:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5155s
We haven't focused on it for a while, too

[01:25:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5157s
... the concern from staff perspective is there is no frequent transit when they're

[01:26:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5161s
down here.

[01:26:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5161s
Yeah.

[01:26:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5161s
Right.

[01:26:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5161s
And so we didn't feel like we should expand it further south.

[01:26:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5165s
Agreed.

[01:26:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5166s
Yeah.

[01:26:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5167s
And the current character of it fundamentally changes south of that intersection.

[01:26:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5173s
Yeah. The decades of development switch.

[01:26:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5175s
And the just the character of Grand Boulevard itself changes dramatically south of

[01:26:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5179s
that intersection. It's like, could you take it to High Drive?

[01:26:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5185s
Yeah, maybe. But

[01:26:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5188s
Do happen to know, where is the southernmost transit stop on

[01:26:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5192s
that sheet there?

[01:26:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5193s
The frequent transit is actually the number four at the intersection of 29th and

[01:26:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5197s
Grand. So that's actually-

[01:26:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5198s
So none of the transit goes past 29th.

[01:26:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5199s
No north of this picture.

[01:26:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5201s
Yeah.

[01:26:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5201s
So the transit does not continue along this way.

[01:26:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5205s
There's no transit there?

[01:26:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5206s
Correct.

[01:26:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5207s
I think there's a low frequency line that goes down there, if I remember right.

[01:26:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5211s
There's one that goes east to west along 37th.

[01:26:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5214s
Yeah, that one, definitely.

[01:26:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5216s
There's no line as far as I'm aware.

[01:26:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5218s
Mike, chances are there might be a better answer on that.

[01:27:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5221s
Yes. Jonathan's here. Yes, Mike, please, go ahead. Help us out.

[01:27:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5224s
Yeah. You're mostly correct. The high frequency transit is the 4 on 29th.

[01:27:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5230s
The 43, which is every half hour, is on 37th, and it runs on the weekend as well,

[01:27:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5236s
on hourly. And then,

[01:27:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5240s
the 144 is on

[01:27:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5245s
part of Grand there.

[01:27:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5248s
But that is only during peak hours, and those hours are getting smaller.

[01:27:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5253s
So for all intents and purposes,

[01:27:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5256s
there's half-hourly service on 37th, and then there's 15-minute service on 29th.

[01:27:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5261s
And there's

[01:27:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5263s
no consistent, as sponsors say, no consistent transit service on Grand.

[01:27:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5272s
So that was a staff concern.

[01:27:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5273s
Yeah. And the half hour is normal historically for Spokane, so I still think

[01:27:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5279s
it is sufficient to have what is currently mapped.

[01:28:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5283s
But I don't think justified.

[01:28:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5285s
But not to extend it.

[01:28:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5285s
Not to extend it, yeah. Before I had a car, I had French lessons up there and it

[01:28:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5290s
was a nightmare.

[01:28:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5292s
A half-hour service coming from the plaza, having transferred already. Ugh.

[01:28:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5298s
Yeah. Thank you.

[01:28:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5301s
Yeah.

[01:28:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5301s
Okay, so now asking the question in the opposite direction, the left

[01:28:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5307s
image being the existing land use along Grand, just further north, along Manito

[01:28:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5313s
Park. So at the bottom of this is 29th, and then Grand going down to the 14th and

[01:28:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5318s
Grand

[01:28:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5320s
mixed use area down there. The current draft future land use map

[01:28:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5327s
shows a lot of what is east and on the south side west of Grand

[01:28:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5332s
being a residential high. This was based off of the frequent transit along Grand

[01:28:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5338s
in this location, as well as the fairly level lots that exist to the east of Manito

[01:29:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5343s
Park, allowing for larger

[01:29:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5347s
residential development, as well as there's pockets of mixed use throughout that

[01:29:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5352s
are existing businesses. So those were the decisions that led to the

[01:29:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5358s
current draft of the future land use map.

[01:29:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5361s
There have been a number of requests that were in your packet already, as well as a

[01:29:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5365s
formal request now that will be in your next packet of comments,

[01:29:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5371s
to consider reducing that level of residential high,

[01:29:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5376s
especially as you get off of Grand.

[01:29:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5379s
How did the high get over that far in the first place?

[01:29:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5387s
Again, the ability-

[01:29:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5389s
And elevation changes

[01:29:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5391s
... the lack of land elevation changes certainly provided an opportunity that

[01:29:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5397s
existed far less frequently on the South Hill to provide residential high.

[01:30:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5401s
Yeah, totally. Okay.

[01:30:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5404s
And again, being a place that does have that frequent service with the 4 compared

[01:30:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5409s
to other places on the South Hill, this was-

[01:30:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5411s
Yeah. I love the idea of densifying along Grand substantially.

[01:30:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5416s
I'm just questioning, this is my neighborhood, so I know this area really, really

[01:30:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5421s
well, but that further in, out to the east, I guess there.

[01:30:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5427s
Yeah. I'll just say from the staff side, we were trying to be consistent in the

[01:30:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5433s
distance from those frequent transit lines that we were trying to draw, the higher

[01:30:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5438s
density or the higher intensity land use designations.

[01:30:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5444s
Where you have the Grand going at a slight angle-

[01:30:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5447s
Yeah. Pixel

[01:30:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5447s
... you get this kind of pixel effect, where we were trying to use whole blocks.

[01:30:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5452s
Yeah.

[01:30:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5452s
So to some extent, there's a judgment call there, and yeah, I don't know that

[01:30:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5457s
we would have concerns about peeling off some of the blocks at the edge that are

[01:31:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5462s
part of that angle.

[01:31:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5463s
Yeah, I just wonder if it can't sort of step down a little bit.

[01:31:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5469s
I'm not terribly bothered by it. I think it is a good place to

[01:31:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5474s
think about added people.

[01:31:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5478s
Mm-hmm.

[01:31:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5479s
There's services there, there's the park there, there's transit there, there's all

[01:31:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5483s
those things.

[01:31:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5485s
But I can understand how

[01:31:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5488s
That's quite a distance away from those elements that the zone has carried

[01:31:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5494s
right now.

[01:31:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5496s
I know, and to end this up real quick, if you want,

[01:31:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5501s
further south, Hatch is one block, and then it steps in here to Sherman.

[01:31:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5506s
Those are areas if you really wanted to start adjusting, you could pull some of

[01:31:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5511s
these between Sherman and Hatch out, and restore them to R.

[01:31:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5516s
Yeah.

[01:31:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5516s
Like a step onto this thing.

[01:31:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5519s
Yeah, like step over, what is that, 19th?

[01:32:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5522s
And, I just wonder if there's some opportunity to sort of surgically step it in

[01:32:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5527s
there a little bit.

[01:32:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5528s
Okay. All right.

[01:32:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5530s
It is just like two or three blocks though, right?

[01:32:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5532s
Yeah. It is. It feels very-

[01:32:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5534s
If you want to be like a bus stop.

[01:32:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5535s
That's how I... Yeah.

[01:32:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5536s
Maximum depth is like two and a half blocks, yeah.

[01:32:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5539s
Yeah.

[01:32:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5540s
That's not very far.

[01:32:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5540s
It's not very far, because I always come up on that east side on my bike and then

[01:32:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5543s
go west to get places.

[01:32:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5546s
Yeah.

[01:32:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5548s
So, Linda, you had a question.

[01:32:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5549s
Yeah, my question is,

[01:32:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5553s
have these density proposals been reevaluated in terms of evacuation

[01:32:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5559s
routes? I'm not as familiar with this part of Spokane, but it strikes me that,

[01:32:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5565s
what are the alternatives for evacuation?

[01:32:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5568s
Are you putting an awful lot of people on a major thoroughfare that's going to

[01:32:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5574s
be the only, or one of the very, very few evacuation routes, especially next to a

[01:33:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5580s
park full of ponderosa pines? And we all know now what ponderosa pines can do.

[01:33:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5586s
So, I mean, that's the whole South Hill though .

[01:33:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5589s
Yeah, but it has a grid. There's quite a few routes.

[01:33:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5593s
Yeah, there's plenty of ways out.

[01:33:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5595s
You can just sort of pinch routes, like all the way out at Latou or-

[01:33:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5597s
Yeah. Exactly. Having just looked at that very issue in this immediate area of

[01:33:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5603s
preceding the 1st of August, there's an awful lot of ways out here.

[01:33:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5609s
Yeah, I'll just add, I think, yes, we are considering evacuation

[01:33:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5615s
as

[01:33:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5618s
something that needs to be looked at as we're making these decisions.

[01:33:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5622s
Yes, there's a great grid here, so I think there's less concern about evacuation

[01:33:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5626s
routes. And I guess I would just say,

[01:33:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5630s
that exact issue, I think is one rationale for ensuring that development can occur

[01:33:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5635s
along these places.

[01:33:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5637s
Yeah.

[01:33:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5637s
Because if it doesn't occur here, then we're saying it needs to occur out in areas

[01:34:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5640s
that have less connectivity-

[01:34:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5642s
Yep

[01:34:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5642s
... and would have, I think, heightened concerns.

[01:34:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5645s
Yep.

[01:34:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5646s
Just for fun, so what I've done here is I just cut at 16th and brought it over,

[01:34:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5653s
what is this? To Sherman. The reason I'm suggesting you might consider leaving this

[01:34:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5658s
is just because of Rockwood Bakery and this little mixed area is actually rather

[01:34:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5662s
active, and could benefit from more customers, to be honest.

[01:34:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5667s
You could do something like this, and that would take a little bit out.

[01:34:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5670s
You could bring this here, and come down at any point if you wanted to bring some

[01:34:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5676s
more blocks out. This would take about six blocks of RH out.

[01:34:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5681s
It's a half a dozen in one way, and six another. It's a tough call.

[01:34:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5688s
Yeah.

[01:34:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5688s
It's part of why we wrestled with it when kind of converting into the preferred

[01:34:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5692s
alternative.

[01:34:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5693s
Yeah. It is.

[01:34:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5694s
There's just some good opportunity in here.

[01:34:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5696s
Yeah.

[01:34:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5696s
Also, keep in mind too, that none of this is compelling redevelopment.

[01:35:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5701s
It's only creating the opportunity for if they want to.

[01:35:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5705s
There are a number of beautiful properties in here that are well-managed, that are

[01:35:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5710s
taken care of.

[01:35:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5712s
Probably not going to redevelop.

[01:35:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5713s
Probably not going to redevelop.

[01:35:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5714s
Yeah.

[01:35:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5714s
And so, I do recall when we were kind of working on this configuration, we tried

[01:35:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5720s
to err a little bit on the side of a little extra space.

[01:35:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5723s
It's only because we wanted to capture as much opportunity, but there's just a lot

[01:35:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5727s
that won't redevelop.

[01:35:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5729s
Well, yeah, and it's functionally unlikely-

[01:35:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5730s
That's fine

[01:35:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5731s
... mostly that it will-

[01:35:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5732s
Yeah

[01:35:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5732s
... just due to the cost.

[01:35:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5734s
Yeah.

[01:35:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5734s
Well, that's just a reason to keep it larger.

[01:35:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5737s
I do want to be mindful of our two remaining items.

[01:35:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5740s
That's why I got it.

[01:35:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5742s
Yeah.

[01:35:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5742s
Give me one second.

[01:35:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5743s
Okay.

[01:35:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5743s
I

[01:35:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5745s
want to hit the last two slides. Well, I'll just jump

[01:35:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5751s
past the majority of this.

[01:35:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5754s
It's tough. There's so much to talk about.

[01:35:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5756s
Just the briefest of comments. In Northeast Spokane, so this is

[01:36:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5762s
Nevada and Lincoln,

[01:36:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5765s
just we've had a number of comments specifically

[01:36:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5769s
from community members upset about industrial being proposed in their neighborhood.

[01:36:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5775s
So just wanting to highlight that-

[01:36:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5777s
It's already industrial

[01:36:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5779s
... it's already industrial, and this was actually a removal of some industrial,

[01:36:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5781s
and an implementation of mixed use

[01:36:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5784s
and open space.

[01:36:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5785s
And open space.

[01:36:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5785s
Yeah.

[01:36:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5785s
And additional possible park.

[01:36:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5788s
So you did give that reply, right?

[01:36:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5790s
So that's the right now, unless there's questions, we are not actively replying to

[01:36:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5796s
a lot of the public comment because that's part of the overarching response.

[01:36:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5801s
So that's why some of it comes at this scale, and then some of it comes at a larger

[01:36:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5806s
scale later.

[01:36:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5808s
It has to be the done fun along the way as well.

[01:36:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5812s
That's fine.

[01:36:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5814s
Just wanted to highlight that.

[01:36:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5815s
This is not new industrial.

[01:36:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5817s
Not new industrial.

[01:36:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5818s
But it's open, half open space, half...

[01:37:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5821s
Yeah.

[01:37:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5821s
Yeah.

[01:37:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5822s
Okay. Then I will just quickly jump to my concluding slides. We'll later.

[01:37:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5828s
Okay, so as was mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, the public comment

[01:37:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5831s
period is open, has an official ending now, based off of the conversations at the

[01:37:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5836s
last bike commission meeting of October 2nd.

[01:37:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5839s
People can continue to comment by sending an email to planSpokane@spokanecity.org,

[01:37:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5845s
or using the online interactive map.

[01:37:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5848s
And then finally,

[01:37:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5851s
we will have another conversation very similar to this at your next planning

[01:37:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5854s
commission meeting, but that will be your last opportunity for us to have workshop

[01:37:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5858s
time to discuss changes that will go into that draft hearing version of the land

[01:37:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5863s
use map. Because that has to come out before your hearing, weeks in advance.

[01:37:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5868s
Even though there's a month between that next workshop and when you have your

[01:37:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5871s
hearing, those conversations won't be happening at the workshop level.

[01:37:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5876s
So if there's changes after that next meeting, those will be happening after the

[01:38:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5880s
hearing on the IS.

[01:38:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5881s
Yeah, that's-

[01:38:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5882s
And then moving towards your hearing in November.

[01:38:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5884s
That's an important distinction.

[01:38:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5885s
Just like with every content amendment, you have the ability to make

[01:38:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5889s
recommendations at the end. We just would prefer not, because it gets very complex.

[01:38:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5894s
It would.

[01:38:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5895s
It is possible.

[01:38:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5895s
Parcell from the data skills?

[01:38:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5898s
Okay.

[01:38:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5900s
Go ahead.

[01:38:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5900s
One quick thing to add. We did receive some comments that were outside of the scope

[01:38:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5904s
of the preferred alternative.

[01:38:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5906s
Yeah.

[01:38:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5906s
Those are on the table if somebody wants us to take a look at those.

[01:38:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5909s
We've generally not brought them forward just because they're not part of the

[01:38:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5913s
preferred alternative. But if there's something you see in the comments that you

[01:38:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5916s
would like us to consider, be prepared to bring that up at the workshop and we can

[01:38:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5921s
take a look at.

[01:38:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5921s
Let's make sure we schedule enough time for that one.

[01:38:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5924s
That's a major discussion point. I want to make sure we've got enough time to get

[01:38:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5930s
through all that.

[01:38:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5931s
Yeah.

[01:38:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5932s
All right.

[01:38:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5933s
Thank you.

[01:38:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5933s
Thank you both. Okay.

[01:38:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5934s
You're welcome.

[01:38:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5935s
So then, moving on to planned Spokane draft policies related to wildfires and

[01:39:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5940s
emergency management with not here also.

[01:39:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5943s
Martin.

[01:39:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5944s
Martin. Okay.

[01:39:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5944s
I just realized, I was like, "Who's doing that?"

[01:39:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5947s
I'll get out of your way, Martin. Sorry.

[01:39:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5949s
Are you?

[01:39:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5949s
It's not me.

[01:39:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5950s
Martin did the slides.

[01:39:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5951s
I think I'll open this up. Do we want to do this? I love it.

[01:39:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5956s
We could move it to next time if-

[01:39:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5958s
I'm sorry.

[01:39:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5958s
I mean, there's no-

[01:39:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5959s
No, you're the other one

[01:39:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5960s
... traditional policy.

[01:39:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5962s
Yeah, you.

[01:39:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5962s
Yeah, you're the other one, Spencer.

[01:39:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5963s
I think my item can be really quick. I don't anticipate there being any concerns.

[01:39:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5968s
Okay.

[01:39:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5969s
So-

[01:39:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5970s
Okay

[01:39:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5970s
... if you can leave me five minutes, I bet that's enough time.

[01:39:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5973s
Okay. I'll also, the slides weren't provided in advance, but we can send them

[01:39:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5979s
out. I'm not going to go over the policies.

[01:39:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5981s
I think I'll just go through the context, and then we can send out the

[01:39:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5987s
actual policies. Okay, so I'm filling in for Tyrrell.

[01:39:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=5994s
My understanding of the workshop is to share how the draft

[01:40:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6001s
plans Spokane 2046 addresses wildfire and emergency management considerations.

[01:40:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6007s
So pulling out policies that are already in the draft plan, but just kind of

[01:40:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6012s
highlighting them so that there's some awareness of the conversations

[01:40:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6018s
and

[01:40:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6020s
the policies that would be coming forward with the adoption of the final plan.

[01:40:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6024s
So Martin, just to clarify, these are not new proposed policies in reaction to the

[01:40:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6029s
fires-

[01:40:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6030s
No

[01:40:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6030s
... these are just the new ones that are-

[01:40:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6032s
I think, yeah. We've been talking about wildfire for years-

[01:40:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6035s
Sure

[01:40:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6035s
... in the climate planning, and so part of the benefit of having the new

[01:40:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6040s
comprehensive plan is the integration of some of these more climate

[01:40:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6046s
resilience policies that will hopefully help us prepare better in the future.

[01:40:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6052s
Good.

[01:40:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6053s
So yeah, this is based on the content that was published in the

[01:40:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6059s
August 2026 version.

[01:41:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6063s
So, did this myself.

[01:41:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6066s
Okay. So,

[01:41:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6070s
yeah, this is coming from climate planning.

[01:41:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6072s
I won't go into this too much, but we do have all the materials online.

[01:41:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6077s
We've had a number of workshops over the two years that we did this, but

[01:41:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6081s
essentially, through community engagement, staff discussions, and then working with

[01:41:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6087s
the Climate Resilience and Sustainability Board, we presented a

[01:41:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6092s
package of policies addressing climate resilience and greenhouse gas emission

[01:41:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6097s
reductions. And, that was approved

[01:41:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6103s
or recommended by the CRSB in February, came to Plan Commission, and then

[01:41:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6109s
integrated into the comprehensive plan.

[01:41:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6110s
So, these are already in the comprehensive plan or the draft plan now.

[01:41:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6116s
But

[01:41:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6118s
just highlighting that focus. And I guess just for understanding, climate

[01:42:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6123s
resilience as a whole is about anticipating, preparing for, and adapting to changes

[01:42:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6128s
in climate to minimize negative impacts to our natural systems, infrastructure, and

[01:42:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6132s
communities. So it really is the whole process of when

[01:42:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6137s
a hazard happens, how we've prepared for it, how are we responding to it, and how

[01:42:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6143s
we can adapt to things going forward.

[01:42:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6145s
So when we're thinking about wildfires in the future, everything before that,

[01:42:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6150s
during, and after is part of that resilience process.

[01:42:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6157s
Some materials that we had, the climate risk and vulnerability assessment provided

[01:42:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6162s
that foundational framework. So again, these are materials that are available

[01:42:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6166s
online.

[01:42:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6169s
And then we do have the draft policies already integrated into the comprehensive

[01:42:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6174s
plan. So a few that I'm just going to click through.

[01:42:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6179s
They're spread throughout all chapters.

[01:43:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6182s
Again, sort of the recognition that climate resilience impacts

[01:43:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6188s
all factors of our community and all of our policies.

[01:43:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6193s
So we have them integrated throughout, and then we'll have a matrix as well that

[01:43:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6199s
presents an easier way to look through that. I'm not sure.

[01:43:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6202s
Is that in the comprehensive plan right now or will that be at the end?

[01:43:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6204s
I see presented on the online tool, so I think-

[01:43:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6207s
Oh, yeah. Exactly. So you can see that.

[01:43:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6210s
So ones that highlighting as far as wildfire and emergency management, so we have

[01:43:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6215s
some in the growth strategy, that's what GS stands for, and then some in this one,

[01:43:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6220s
leasing capital facilities. So looking at the natural environment, water

[01:43:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6224s
conservation.

[01:43:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6229s
The big one on resilient land use. I think we had a lot of discussion at the Plan

[01:43:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6234s
Commission around how land use interfaces with climate.

[01:44:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6240s
So we have a policy in here on

[01:44:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6244s
resilient land use and

[01:44:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6248s
also climate consideration. So a lot of these are, again, integrating what we

[01:44:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6253s
talked about from the climate planning process and the CRSB, and then bringing in

[01:44:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6258s
concepts around environmental justice, different climate resilience, how it

[01:44:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6264s
interacts with development patterns, siting, replacing, looking at community assets

[01:44:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6269s
and impacts there. Another big topic

[01:44:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6275s
around wild and urban interface, so looking at some standards and outreach as well.

[01:44:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6281s
We heard a lot about the impacts of the WUI through our climate planning and sort

[01:44:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6287s
of the extent that it comes into the city, and then the need to engage and have

[01:44:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6291s
conversations with that at city level, neighborhood level, individual homeowner

[01:44:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6296s
levels. So the fire department is doing a lot of work there, so kind of reflecting

[01:45:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6300s
that work throughout with some policy considerations.

[01:45:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6308s
Community health chapter has a lot of discussions around emergency management,

[01:45:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6314s
ideas around resilience hubs, so specific spots within the community, and then

[01:45:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6320s
looking at ways that we can be resilient around wildfire as well.

[01:45:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6327s
Discussion around evacuation strategies.

[01:45:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6336s
We had quite a few here. And one of the interesting informed

[01:45:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6342s
discussions was around tribal planning, and I mean, we had some specific

[01:45:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6347s
conversations around tribal planning and tribal

[01:45:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6352s
emergency coordination, but just the idea of culturally relevant

[01:45:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6358s
communication and responding to that.

[01:46:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6360s
So, that was one aspect that came out of our tribal coordination.

[01:46:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6365s
But also considering, of course, coordination throughout many different of our

[01:46:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6370s
cultural communities in Spokane, and how that can be coordinated.

[01:46:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6384s
Transportation, looking at connecting evacuation routes.

[01:46:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6387s
So I think that's been one discussion that's certainly come out of the wildfires,

[01:46:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6393s
and there's a lot of success around evacuating 60,000 people

[01:46:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6399s
in North Spokane, and then lessons learned about future considerations

[01:46:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6404s
and how that might go elsewhere. So, at least some policies recognizing how

[01:46:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6410s
the infrastructure around that interplays with evacuation.

[01:46:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6416s
So that's the very high level. I guess I did it in a lot shorter.

[01:47:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6422s
Might be a little bit lot more time, but I think the intent was to just show the

[01:47:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6426s
ways that the comprehensive plan is

[01:47:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6430s
thinking about wildfire, emergency management, evacuation.

[01:47:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6434s
Again, these are not in response to the recent wildfires, but will hopefully help

[01:47:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6439s
us consider, over the next 20 years, better planning and policy around that.

[01:47:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6446s
And just that a lot of those, if not all of those policies are new in this version

[01:47:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6450s
of the comprehensive plan and don't exist in the prior version.

[01:47:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6454s
Yeah. There are some, I think, some edits to ideas

[01:47:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6460s
previously around wildfire, but fire was mostly discussed about siting

[01:47:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6466s
facilities and

[01:47:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6470s
more just about the references to historic fires.

[01:47:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6474s
But yes, this one is looking at wildfires, wildfire smoke, and those

[01:48:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6480s
hazards as they could continue to get worse, and then responding to that with new

[01:48:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6484s
policy.

[01:48:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6486s
There's one other aspect that we didn't highlight here, but you'll see on the

[01:48:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6491s
arterial map that we also are putting in some arterial connections in areas.

[01:48:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6497s
One example that came up in the context of the fires is Barnes Road, in the far

[01:48:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6503s
northwest. Currently does not connect down to Nine Mile.

[01:48:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6507s
The arterial map includes a potential connection down there.

[01:48:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6510s
Now, showing the connection on the map does not build a connection, but we have to

[01:48:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6513s
start with having it on a map. So, I know there's also some connections down in

[01:48:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6518s
Latah Valley that are shown on the arterial map.

[01:48:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6521s
Those are steps that we need to take now in order to eventually build those

[01:48:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6525s
connections. But it doesn't show up in the policy language, and that shows up in a

[01:48:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6529s
map that we didn't really highlight here.

[01:48:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6531s
Yeah.

[01:48:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6532s
Yeah, I guess that's what I would just say with all of that is I think we've got a

[01:48:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6536s
real unfortunate opportunity, but an opportunity to learn from what happened, and I

[01:49:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6541s
guess I would love to see some reaction in the code rather than, like, "See, this

[01:49:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6547s
is all stuff that we did. That's right, and I'm not faulting you for that,

[01:49:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6550s
Margaret."

[01:49:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6550s
Yeah.

[01:49:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6552s
It feels a little bit sort of self-congratulatory that like, "Here's all the things

[01:49:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6556s
that we did," and I would love to see some learnings from that along the lines of

[01:49:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6561s
what you were talking about, including those things, and what did we miss and going

[01:49:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6566s
back through some of those things, I still think we're way too light on WUI

[01:49:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6572s
stuff in the comp plan. That whole piece about WUI outreach makes me crazy, but

[01:49:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6578s
that's another conversation for another day.

[01:49:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6581s
So yeah, I would still love to see some more learnings out of that and some more

[01:49:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6587s
advancement while we've got sort of the hood open, quote, unquote.

[01:49:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6590s
So again, not an indictment of you.

[01:49:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6592s
Yeah. There was nothing previously, so-

[01:49:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6594s
Yeah. Absolutely

[01:49:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6595s
... the fact that this does help set up those conversations, but absolutely the-

[01:49:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6599s
That's a good point

[01:50:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6600s
... the need to go deeper. I mean, these are just policies, and they're writ

[01:50:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6604s
broadly for the intent of being a policy level.

[01:50:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6609s
But yes, the implementation of that and carrying that forward is certainly the

[01:50:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6615s
next steps.

[01:50:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6616s
It's going to be hugely important to see how that translates into code and capital

[01:50:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6620s
facilities planning.

[01:50:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6621s
Yeah.

[01:50:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6621s
You show that Barnes Road to Five Mile and Indian Trail, and they're going to fart.

[01:50:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6627s
That's been on the map forever. We've never built it, and there's a steep ravine

[01:50:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6632s
there. There's private property concerns.

[01:50:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6635s
There's all that stuff, and we've never bothered to conquer any of those

[01:50:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6638s
challenges. So that's just not an answer.

[01:50:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6643s
Unless you've got something in the capital facilities plan to actually fund that.

[01:50:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6647s
And they're also just livid that development didn't pay for this in the first

[01:50:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6651s
place. I heard the dreamy concept of, be still

[01:50:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6657s
my heart, why don't we build the infrastructure first before the growth goes in?

[01:51:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6662s
It's like, lady, you're preaching to the choir.

[01:51:05] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6665s
Yeah.

[01:51:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6666s
But, we have to find a balance there.

[01:51:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6668s
I know we can't build this infrastructure before the growth goes in, but this is a

[01:51:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6672s
ridiculous lag, and it was not a successful evacuation to have people watching

[01:51:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6677s
flames beside their cars, sitting there for three hours, texting their council

[01:51:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6682s
members, "We still haven't moved," every 15 minutes for three hours.

[01:51:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6687s
And me texting Chief Hall again every 15 minutes for three hours, "My people still

[01:51:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6693s
haven't moved." And then on the other side, on Five Mile, texting back and forth

[01:51:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6697s
with Marcus Riccelli as he's trying to evacuate, and they finally got that cleared

[01:51:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6702s
up. That took civilian ground guides, which is super dangerous.

[01:51:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6706s
And then on the Indian Trail side, it was just bumper to bumper, not moving.

[01:51:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6710s
There was nothing anybody could do, including the police.

[01:51:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6712s
People were getting out of their cars and walking up and down and knocking on each

[01:51:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6716s
other's windows and saying, "Have you heard anything?

[01:51:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6717s
Have you heard anything?" Everybody was being very polite. They couldn't move.

[01:52:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6723s
It was insane that we didn't have mass panic there.

[01:52:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6727s
But luckily, Indian Trail, a little calmer, a little more polite than Five Mile.

[01:52:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6732s
They stuck it out, and they survived.

[01:52:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6734s
There were people who didn't evacuate because they looked and saw that there was

[01:52:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6738s
nowhere to go. I hosted a family whose plan was to go through the dump site because

[01:52:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6744s
they knew there was an easement, and then they looked out and the dump site was on

[01:52:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6747s
fire, and they're like, "Never mind." And then their other friends had to convince

[01:52:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6751s
them. It was a nightmare. We are so lucky nobody died.

[01:52:36] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6756s
That was the skin of our teeth. That was not something we can claim was successful.

[01:52:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6762s
And I think the firefighters and the police did the best they could.

[01:52:46] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6766s
I'm not blaming anybody on the ground.

[01:52:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6768s
But having fought some of those developments up there for the last 20 years with

[01:52:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6773s
this same argument and having nothing have happened except some connectivity at the

[01:52:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6777s
top of Five Mile with Barnes Road and Strong Road,

[01:53:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6782s
I can't help but also be livid for these people.

[01:53:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6784s
And I don't know if any of you have gone up yet, but even though it's been a month

[01:53:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6789s
now, it's still... I was just at Indian Trail Neighborhood Council last night.

[01:53:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6792s
Driving by those sites, it's really shocking and visceral,

[01:53:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6798s
especially when you've been up there working with those people, trying to prevent

[01:53:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6803s
this exact scenario from happening for 20 years.

[01:53:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6809s
I guess I'm curious as to how do we address...

[01:53:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6812s
Some of those developments are within the last 20 years, but some of them are more

[01:53:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6815s
than 60 years old. So how do we address infrastructure street-level

[01:53:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6821s
issues on existing-

[01:53:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6825s
Well, there's a county element, too.

[01:53:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6827s
Yeah.

[01:53:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6828s
Some of the stuff that contributed to the congestion isn't even in the city of

[01:53:51] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6831s
Spokane.

[01:53:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6832s
Right.

[01:53:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6833s
And we've got three massive developments proposed up there right now.

[01:53:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6838s
So people are also livid that those permitting processes are going through, and

[01:54:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6842s
we're not even necessarily requiring easements through those properties, let alone

[01:54:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6846s
roads be built. And one of them is at the county level.

[01:54:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6850s
And so I feel like we need a regional discussion and a

[01:54:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6856s
joint planning capital facilities plan to address these things and

[01:54:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6862s
possibly revenue source, possibly bonding.

[01:54:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6866s
And unless there's political will, hopefully, this committee can be helpful with

[01:54:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6872s
making the case on that. And your WUI concerns are very well taken.

[01:54:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6877s
Firewise training is for rural areas. It's not for a city.

[01:54:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6882s
Yeah.

[01:54:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6884s
Yeah. To me, it's always struck me as sort of going to a drunk driver and

[01:54:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6888s
explaining to them how to not kill people while driving drunk, and then tossing

[01:54:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6892s
them the keys and saying, "Good luck out there."

[01:54:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6893s
Yeah. Homes are sold in that place, and it was in the city limits.

[01:54:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6896s
They're not thinking about-

[01:54:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6898s
Yeah

[01:54:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6898s
... defensive space.

[01:55:00] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6900s
And that's my question is, we've got the hood up on this, the county's got the hood

[01:55:04] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6904s
up on theirs.

[01:55:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6907s
How do we learn? What do we learn?

[01:55:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6908s
So I think there needs to be some reflection in the development regulations that we

[01:55:13] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6913s
propose and the capital facilities plan of how to deal with this, even if we know

[01:55:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6918s
it's going to be a heavy lift.

[01:55:19] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6919s
And a policy-level direction.

[01:55:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6921s
Because aspirational stuff address concerns, unless that's in the capital

[01:55:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6926s
facilities plan, it's not addressed,

[01:55:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6929s
period.

[01:55:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6930s
Yeah. I think

[01:55:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6932s
we could, at a policy level, specifically address Five Mile, Indian Trail, and

[01:55:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6938s
Eagle Ridge. To me, those are the three areas that stick out of all the areas we

[01:55:42] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6942s
built in the last 30 years, but, that are the most dangerous in terms of-

[01:55:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6947s
Grandview Thorp, Laker.

[01:55:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6949s
Sure. Yeah.

[01:55:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6949s
Just because they haven't burned yet. Even West Central.

[01:55:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6952s
We've had so many fires, and-

[01:55:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6954s
I mean, I-

[01:55:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6954s
... we've got civilians out there tamping them down because we know.

[01:55:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6958s
And that I don't recommend. But it could've been so much worse without vigilante

[01:56:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6962s
firefighting that happens during these fires, even though I keep telling people-

[01:56:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6967s
I'm talking about-

[01:56:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6967s
... don't do it. They did it anyway.

[01:56:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6969s
Talking about the South Hill, and doing the same thing. Yeah.

[01:56:12] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6972s
We're in a really bad place, and I got in trouble my first year on

[01:56:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6978s
council for saying these exact same things to this committee.

[01:56:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6982s
So I

[01:56:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6984s
was describing conditions as they exist. I wasn't making crazy speculations.

[01:56:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6988s
It happened, and we're lucky no one died.

[01:56:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6993s
It seems like room for potentially an additional policy or two or three.

[01:56:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=6998s
Or a reflection exercise.

[01:56:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7000s
The neighborhoods won't ask for it until-

[01:56:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7000s
Yeah.

[01:56:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7001s
Yeah

[01:56:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7001s
... until we figure it out and punch some roots through.

[01:56:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7004s
Yeah.

[01:56:45] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7005s
It's going to be pretty hard to go out there and tell them no.

[01:56:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7008s
So what does that process look like in terms of our learning trajectory for the

[01:56:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7012s
adoption of the capital facilities plan?

[01:56:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7018s
I don't know. I guess I have a question specifically about the concerns related to

[01:57:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7023s
WUI.

[01:57:08] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7028s
We hear a lot about WUI code,

[01:57:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7030s
but specifically the building code, because the WUI code is a building code.

[01:57:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7035s
Mm-hmm.

[01:57:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7037s
I guess, in your mind, what does it look like for a zoning

[01:57:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7042s
code to address WUI concerns? Are you talking about significantly restricting what

[01:57:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7048s
people can build?

[01:57:29] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7049s
Yeah.

[01:57:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7050s
Is that potentially-

[01:57:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7051s
Potentially

[01:57:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7051s
... actually what you're-

[01:57:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7051s
Yeah

[01:57:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7052s
... interested in?

[01:57:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7052s
In those high-hazard areas, yeah.

[01:57:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7054s
Impact fees, requirements, or connectivity.

[01:57:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7058s
Or even something that runs with the land that says, "You accept the

[01:57:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7064s
risks of living out here, and if something happens, fire is going to have to

[01:57:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7069s
prioritize the area where there's more people."

[01:57:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7074s
And locked gates.

[01:57:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7075s
And then best of luck getting insurance on that.

[01:57:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7078s
Yeah.

[01:57:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7078s
Yeah. On the street design, can we have more intense requirements for street

[01:58:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7083s
level grid style?

[01:58:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7086s
Requirements. If there's a large plat coming in, it's required that it contributes

[01:58:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7091s
to the evacuation routes in some sort of measurable way or something.

[01:58:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7095s
We need the county to do the same thing.

[01:58:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7097s
Yeah.

[01:58:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7097s
Yeah. 10 years ago, I ran a connectivity ordinance at the county, and it passed

[01:58:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7101s
eventually, but they slowly eroded it, and it's pretty much gone now.

[01:58:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7105s
Okay. I don't want to cut this conversation off.

[01:58:28] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7108s
Maybe we can revisit at the next workshop, because your point is well taken.

[01:58:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7114s
We're tight here, and we've got to figure out what we need to do to get through it,

[01:58:37] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7117s
but I think there's at least a short session on-

[01:58:41] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7121s
There's still public comment-

[01:58:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7123s
Yeah

[01:58:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7124s
... through October 2nd on policy, so if there is gaps, I guess I'm

[01:58:50] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7130s
not sure what discussions have gone back to the CRSB about reflection on wildfire,

[01:58:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7134s
but

[01:58:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7136s
these have been in the draft for a number of months, so if there's ways to

[01:59:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7143s
take a new lens at them, I'm super down.

[01:59:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7146s
Yeah. Let's plan to put some workshop time next time in two weeks.

[01:59:09] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7149s
Yeah. That'd be great.

[01:59:10] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7150s
Continue the discussion.

[01:59:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7151s
That'd be great. Okay. Sorry, Samantha. You were right.

[01:59:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7154s
That's okay. We can be really fast and-

[01:59:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7157s
I think you all saw the draft letter in the packet.

[01:59:21] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7161s
There's no specific proposal involved.

[01:59:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7163s
It's really just

[01:59:25] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7165s
staff. We have been working on some emergency legislation that we expect to bring

[01:59:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7170s
forward to council,

[01:59:32] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7172s
and that legislation would grant authority to address some concerns about how to

[01:59:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7178s
rebuild. And so the two specific concerns are highlighted in the letter, and that's

[01:59:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7183s
first, people want to rebuild their houses. These were built under previous codes.

[01:59:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7189s
And so, is there some way that we can grant them exemptions from some of the

[01:59:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7195s
standards? For example, design standards that could be difficult

[02:00:01] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7201s
if you're trying to replace what you have there.

[02:00:03] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7203s
Your garage maybe doesn't meet our current standards.

[02:00:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7206s
And so the ability for the planning director to waive those.

[02:00:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7211s
And then the second part is specifically related to accessory dwelling units,

[02:00:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7214s
people looking to build back who may want to inhabit an accessory dwelling unit

[02:00:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7218s
before they build the main house. Insurance doesn't allow that.

[02:00:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7222s
This would grant them special dispensation. So those are the two topics.

[02:00:26] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7226s
Specifically, again, we're bringing this forward to council, so our thought was it

[02:00:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7230s
might be helpful for Plan Commission to just understand what

[02:00:35] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7235s
some of those issues are, and then provide a letter of support, essentially, to

[02:00:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7239s
city council.

[02:00:40] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7240s
So what are we looking for out of this? Do we want to take this to a hearing?

[02:00:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7243s
Do we want to just approve?

[02:00:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7244s
There's no need for a hearing. I think the idea was if Plan Commission chooses,

[02:00:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7248s
they could just approve the letter, and then I would forward that to city council

[02:00:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7252s
so they have it.

[02:00:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7253s
Okay.

[02:00:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7254s
So I would look for a motion then to approve the letter.

[02:00:58] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7258s
Moved.

[02:00:59] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7259s
Second.

[02:01:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7262s
Got a motion and a second. Is there any discussion?

[02:01:06] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7266s
I just want to say thank you. I think these things are great and perfectly logical.

[02:01:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7271s
Absent any other discussion, all those in favor say aye.

[02:01:14] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7274s
Aye.

[02:01:15] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7275s
Those opposed, nay.

[02:01:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7277s
Aye.

[02:01:17] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7277s
Okay. Motion passes.

[02:01:18] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7278s
Thank you. I will get it to council.

[02:01:20] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7280s
Yeah.

[02:01:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7282s
Okay.

[02:01:23] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7283s
I know we're over time.

[02:01:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7284s
Yeah.

[02:01:24] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7284s
Can I ask some questions related to the policy related to wildfire?

[02:01:30] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7290s
The two thoughts that I have are,

[02:01:33] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7293s
one, it would be really helpful if in the workshop where we discuss this,

[02:01:38] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7298s
maybe we are able to pull up the city evacuation map and

[02:01:43] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7303s
show the arterials that are applied.

[02:01:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7307s
What is the traffic count of those different arterials and what is the capacity

[02:01:53] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7313s
versus the actual number-

[02:01:54] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7314s
Service, yeah

[02:01:55] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7315s
... evacuation level service, yeah.

[02:01:57] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7317s
Because doing it off of vibes is not part of this mission.

[02:02:02] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7322s
An additional question I think that I have is,

[02:02:07] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7327s
I think that there needs probably more focus and attention.

[02:02:11] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7331s
And so does it make sense to... I guess there's three options.

[02:02:16] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7336s
It's like we scramble something together in order to adopt the

[02:02:22] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7342s
comprehensive plan at the end of the year, or we delay the adoption of the

[02:02:27] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7347s
comprehensive plan in order to more adequately address this, or we accept that it's

[02:02:31] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7351s
not going to be adequately addressed in the adopted comprehensive plan in terms of

[02:02:34] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7354s
comprehensive plan, but that we're already going with the plan.

[02:02:39] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7359s
And I just want to consider those options if that makes sense.

[02:02:44] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7364s
And to be able to inform the public in some way that-

[02:02:47] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7367s
Yeah

[02:02:48] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7368s
... it's not being ignored.

[02:02:49] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7369s
Yeah.

[02:02:52] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7372s
Okay, anything else for the good of the order? Okay, then we're journeyed.

[02:02:56] https://vimeo.com/1225443380#t=7376s
Take care.